to all my wonderful rv er's out there i need 30amp solar advice please.

[tall1]

i've seen some threads but can't find my situation listed. i'm facing my first winter in 20 yrs. and they want me to spend $15,000 thousand to run shore power 262 feet to my lot, and then pay $200 a month or so for service, so i want to go full solar 30amp, for a 2013 kodiak dutchmen 221RBSL. i've seen kits around 4 grand. win win and no bill,,i'm looking for a plug n play kit with a 30amp plug outlet for a 3600watt camper, my main problem is limited sun, a wooded lot with limited clearings of sun angles. so i figure i need portable panels ? that i will have to rotate cpl times a day to track the sun. i may have to put panels on the ground to easily do this. i do not consume a lot of power i always shut a heavy appliance off to run another, i never leave things running, maybe tv a 2hr movie or my guitar amp a hr or two, or a drill or skill saw a cpl hour once in while for projects, if i make keurig coffee i turn things off then turn kuerig off and then go back to doing something else. i have set norcold fridge to propane to get it off electric draw, i heard it uses a trickle this way it's sticker says 10w on propane. i'm not sure about winter hot water heater usage though, as in do you leave it run continous to avoid freeze up? at present i just flip hot water heat switch 15 min. before shower, i have plenty of hot scalding water, then turn it back off til i need it again but will this work for winter? i have a 30 amp 3600w gas generator that runs camper and all my needs perfect that i use now and will have for back up, even some solar power will help kill some gas cost, daily generator for months is eating gas like crazy. and can my gas generator 120v outlet charge the solar battery unit just like a household outlet? of course not while plugged in to camper at same time, or just run it to charge solar unit on some cloudy days. some kits say they can charge fully in a couple hours on ac current. a cpl hours of gas once in a while would be okay. i have a neighbor thats going to run me a extension cord from his house for my holmes 1300w space heater it's the only thing i will put on the extension and only if i get real cold and have to run it and yes i gave him a cpl hundred already lol. and my propane heater below my pantry cabinet works good tested a cpl days ago, but i will reserve that for emergency very freezing below zero nites as i've heard they are propane hogs, sorry to be so long winded it's all very confusing so many kits, what would be best? whos reputable?reliable? do i need a seperate inverter? or do the kits already have it. do i need extra batteries or panels since i'm not getting open full powerful sun? how far can the panels be from the main battery unit? do i need extra charging cables to reach panels to main solar battery unit? can i put the main solar power unit in my holding box under bedroom it has double swing doors and has inside height of 32 inches, maybe drill a cpl air holes for ventilation?, but at least it'll be out of the freezing cold or have the main battery unit in the camper and drill a hole to pass 30 amp plug cord to outside camper shore hook up like i hook my gas generator up? i've got a 100$ surge protector on my 30amp plug cord between generator and camper do i keep it on with the solar battery power unit? lol i need help my head is spinning, i have strong electrical skills even 440v but never have done solar before. i'd ask the solar companies but i know they just want a sell, i trust my exp. rv er's more. has anyone been in this situation or got any great advice other than i write too much lol,,,thanks for reading,,thomas

 

[HueyPilotVN]

That's a lot of questions.

I did such a project to create a Solar solution that would provide 30+ amps at 120 volts to the main panel just as with shore power or generator.

I did it to see if it was possible to run the air conditioner while boon docking.

It is not practical from a cost standpoint, but it can be mostly done.

I took it on as a project on my 30 foot Class C.

Here is a link to the project, (it is a long set of postings, but it does cover lots of information).

First, if you read the link below it might answer some of the questions you have or it might dissuade you from the project.

Then since you have defined what you want to do and the scope of it, you need to ask single questions about your issues, one per thread to get specific and usefull responses from the many experienced members here.

Single questions will get more answers than lengthy and complex ones. We enjoy helping answer with focused answers, versus writing a book of answers.

New Project, Solar for Class C

I have been doing almost nothing for the last 7 months so I am going to get off my butt and start a new project, I am going to put as large of a solar installation as I can on the Class C Chateau. I am limited by usable roof space but I think I can put 8 (200 watt panels), on the roof for...

www.rvforum.net

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

It does seem like your needs are fairly modest and even at the reduced output of solar during the winter (nominally half) you have the mindset to manage your usage.

It would be useful to know your current or desired usage in watt hours. This can be estimated or measured, most readily with a battery monitor. This is your lifeline to solar power survival, if you don't have a monitor now, that's on the list.

You didn't say what your current battery bank was or how it works for you. That's a good data point to know.

Freezing pipes is going to be your biggest issue. I would guess KY isn't as much a challenge for that as North Dakota but I would bet you won't make it through a winter without having a few days of 20's.

Even above freezing, keeping your place heated and dehumidified will be your other challenge. A 1500W heater won't cut it. You'll be going through tons of propane, so budget/prepare for that.

I get you're looking at "kits" but I'm not sure they're a slam dunk solution to what you're trying to do. Every application is different and generally the prepackaged solutions end up costing more in the long run because you end up supplementing or replacing parts of them to fit your needs. The measured approach is to go into it with an estimate of what your energy needs are, then sizing the panels and batteries to match it. From there you can implement a system then after a few weeks you'll know how close you hit the mark and if it comes up short, it won't be by much. Meanwhile you have the genset to fill the gaps until you get the system balanced.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[tall1]

That's a lot of questions.

I did such a project to create a Solar solution that would provide 30+ amps at 120 volts to the main panel just as with shore power or generator.

I did it to see if it was possible to run the air conditioner while boon docking.

It is not practical from a cost standpoint, but it can be mostly done.

I took it on as a project on my 30 foot Class C.

Here is a link to the project, (it is a long set of postings, but it does cover lots of information).

First, if you read the link below it might answer some of the questions you have or it might dissuade you from the project.

Then since you have defined what you want to do and the scope of it, you need to ask single questions about your issues, one per thread to get specific and usefull responses from the many experienced members here.

Single questions will get more answers than lengthy and complex ones. We enjoy helping answer with focused answers, versus writing a book of answers.

New Project, Solar for Class C

I have been doing almost nothing for the last 7 months so I am going to get off my butt and start a new project, I am going to put as large of a solar installation as I can on the Class C Chateau. I am limited by usable roof space but I think I can put 8 (200 watt panels), on the roof for...

www.rvforum.net

wow you built a power plant, very nice, and thank you for taking the time to help educate me, i read all your threads and i did gather a lot from it. this forum is great and so are the people. i can't wait to start my project. thanks thomas

 

[RedForeman]

I'd avoid the kits. They usually suit a narrow use case that's usually different from yours. That said, if you know what you're looking to get to, sometimes the bundle can be part of a solution and save a few dollars.

I started to type a more lengthy reply, but the thread @HueyPilotVN linked is where it's at.

You're probably not going to nail it first try. Build what he did and see how it goes. You'll learn by using it where you can get the best bang for your buck on upgrades.

 

[tall1]

hey mark, thanks so much for taking the time to help me. as you mentioned i have to get the battery monitor to give me answers, i will be doing that today. and yes my needs are small, just me and my small camper. winter is my fear, since i have never done this before, although going in i knew it would be a life change and a challenge. summer and a/c i'm not too worried about im used to extreme hot climate and worked out in it for many years in florida. i tried figuring my needs on paper, but i come up with all kinds of crazy numbers, so the monitor should give me straight answers. basicaly all i know is my current situation, that i am trying to copy. my westinghouse generator 30amp 3600w continuous that runs my needs perfect, even a/c providing i dont overload when running it, i've been looking at systems like this ecoflow delta pro portable EcoFlow DELTA Pro Solar Generator (PV400W) - 1*400W + DELTA Pro - EcoFlow knowing i may need to add another panel or battery, guess i'm really trying to find whats easiest, something i can put in cubby box and either add some muffin fans or heat lamp, cut a hole or small hinged trap door for 30 amp cord plug and then plug directly into 30amp shore connection on back side of camper. i know it will mean plugging and unplugging switching from solar to gas, and moving panels around to track the sun path,,but lol i chose this lifestyle. one question do people keep there hotwater heaters running full time up there in the winter. this is the freeze up i'm worried most about, i have county water being installed now setting a meter for $2,800 so i won't need my water pump or holding tanks. any thoughts or ideas i'd love to hear. thanks thomas

 

[tall1]

I'd avoid the kits. They usually suit a narrow use case that's usually different from yours. That said, if you know what you're looking to get to, sometimes the bundle can be part of a solution and save a few dollars.

I started to type a more lengthy reply, but the thread @HueyPilotVN linked is where it's at.

You're probably not going to nail it first try. Build what he did and see how it goes. You'll learn by using it where you can get the best bang for your buck on upgrades.

thanks for replying. yes hueypilots is a great setup and a lot of great info. so many questions to solar and so many ways to go with it..i'm even thinking of now, installing a wood stove, just to take as much as possible off the electric load, winter is my fear. thanks thomas

 

[SargeW]

In my opinion, your biggest issue will needing several panels to meet your needs especially in the winter when the sun is low and the panels produce a lot less power. I have a small 400 watt system and two lithium 1000 Amp hour batteries that primarily runs my 12 volt refer and a few lights. In the fall winter even here in AZ the solar can't keep up with the daily draw of the rig, and the peak charge on the battery bank slowly decreases each day. The solution is more panels and batteries to store enough power for your needs.

It's doable but be realistic about the system that you buy and assemble.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I get a bit confused reading about your power usage/needs. At times you seem to say you need a full 30A (3600 watts) and give examples like running the water heater on electric for a bit, but then say you know to limit big loads to one appliance at a time, which ought to keep the peak well below 3600 watts. And why would you ever use solar electric for the water heater when LP gas would handle it? The heater requires about 1500 watts, so even 15 minutes consumes a lot of watt-hours of power. You need to think in terms of both watts and the amount of time using those watts. A power monitor will be a big help, but you still need to record and analyze both the peak amounts and durations to understand your daily needs.

But you are getting advice from some people with far more extensive solar experience than I, so I'll bow out and just watch this thread.

 

[tall1]

In my opinion, your biggest issue will needing several panels to meet your needs especially in the winter when the sun is low and the panels produce a lot less power. I have a small 400 watt system and two lithium 1000 Amp hour batteries that primarily runs my 12 volt refer and a few lights. In the fall winter even here in AZ the solar can't keep up with the daily draw of the rig, and the peak charge on the battery bank slowly decreases each day. The solution is more panels and batteries to store enough power for your needs.

It's doable but be realistic about the system that you buy and assemble.

thanks sarge, same as i was seeing also, more panels and batteries to compensate. hearing of your system then of hueypilot's i'm starting to see the in between in my situation. everybody has given me great things to think about, i could'nt see comparisons on google like i can here. i couldnt find a all in one video that had 5 different systems and explained what they powered. i'm learning so much from you guys.

 

[tall1]

I get a bit confused reading about your power usage/needs. At times you seem to say you need a full 30A (3600 watts) and give examples like running the water heater on electric for a bit, but then say you know to limit big loads to one appliance at a time, which ought to keep the peak well below 3600 watts. And why would you ever use solar electric for the water heater when LP gas would handle it? The heater requires about 1500 watts, so even 15 minutes consumes a lot of watt-hours of power. You need to think in terms of both watts and the amount of time using those watts. A power monitor will be a big help, but you still need to record and analyze both the peak amounts and durations to understand your daily needs.

But you are getting advice from some people with far more extensive solar experience than I, so I'll bow out and just watch this thread.

thanks gary for getting in here on this. i most gratefully appreciate the education from all of you and the time you all take to help others. what i am basically trying to do is copy what i have now that's from a few months of experience to today that has worked perfect for my needs, but keeping in mind it's also not 10 degrees outside yet, and conserving power has become easy almost a habit. my westinghouse 3600cv gas generator 3600watts / 4650 peak watts with a 30amp plug socket runs my camper perfect a very simple plug and play for my style of living. so since i know that output works i'm trying to equal that in solar power, leaving the gas generator for back up or emergency charging. small engine and severe cold starts i have lots of old school tricks for. i put my norcold fridge on propane and wasn't sure about adding the hot water tank as i have only 2 = 20lb tanks and was wondering about upgrading to a 100lb tank, i believe it was mark got me to thinking about that he said load up on propane and going to town is about a 24 mile round trip, so i'm questioning my propane usage and storage also, guess what i'm trying to do is find a balance, some fuel, some propane, some solar trying to give each delivery system a break to help extend it's life in a sense. if i could lean a little more on solar would be nice, i'm also thinking about buying a wood stove and installing real quick before winter as i have a unlimited fire wood source. thanks thomas

 

[WME]

FWIW We lived in a 30ft class A while the new house was being built. Due to things (covid, costs) what was supposed to be 30 days turned into a winter. I live in the middle of Wyoming so our winters are a bit more than KY. Average temp that year was around 5 deg with some nights being -35 deg.
Skirting is a must. I used a foil faced folding foam, its about 1/4", its an easy install. Not a lot of r-value but it stops the wind chill from happening under the rv. For bitter cold times I put a 250W heat lamp on the ground under the water tanks. I ran the power cord out the skirting and would plug it in as needed
Finally was able to run a power cord to the house and used a 1200w heater which ran about 24 hr a day, with the propane heater coming on at night at 40% cycle time.
RV propane heaters do use a lot of propane, but they use even more battery.
Used propane for fridge, water heater, cooking. I have an extenda-stay setup for propane so I wouldn't need to move the RV to get propane. A 20lb BBQ cylinder would last about week with the electric heater in use, don't ask about propane use with out the electric heater
200w of solar and 225AH of batteries was NOT enough. A 2000w inverter was ok. The generator saw daily use, until the electricity showed up.

AN SO... A Eco Pro 2 1800w solar generator (SG) and 300w of solar would cover most of your electrical needs and save on a lot of gas. That's enough inverter power to run a microwave for popcorn . If you don't need the microwave then the 400-500w SG would do and need a little less solar. A side benefit of a SG is that its portable and you can take it camping.
.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

When you get your battery monitor you'll be able to more specifically quantify your actual power usage. Today you're throwing a 3600W generator at it and it checks the box, but you don't know if you're using 20% or 90% of its capacity, or how many Wh it's ultimately delivering. So you don't necessarily want to replicate that in solar, not that it wouldn't work but let's say you only need a peak 1800W delivery and a handful of kWh per day. You'd end up with solar capacity you never use, not that you couldn't come up with ways to use it up if you wanted but at least at the outset, why make the system larger/more expensive than you have to. Edit: Safe to say you could probably rationalize having too many panels but go with a calculated number at first, and that will show just where the sweet spot is and from there the decision of space, cost and operating margin can be technically determined.

As a data point, with my RV at nominal 30 degree ambient temps I get about 3 days of operation (fridge, water heater, furnace and stove) from a 20lb grill tank. Your usage of course may be different but it illustrates a bit just how much propane it takes to keep these things at some level of habitability. As far as your water heater goes I wouldn't be overly concerned about that freezing say, overnight. It takes a prolonged period of cold to freeze a volume of water that large. Your pipes will freeze long before the water heater would so if you can create an environment where the pipes don't freeze, then the water heater is OK by default.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

As Mark says, water heater freeze-up is not a big worry. If the heater tank was fairly warm in the evening, it's not going to freeze overnight even with the heater off.

Since you are off-grid and not handy to town, I'd suggest either spare 20# LP tank(s) or having a larger one installed with a tee feeding into the RVs main propane line. They make a tee just for that, usually called an "extend-a-stay" tee after the original such product. But any propane supply service will have a tee that would work. A 100# tank with your existing 20# in reserve would assure you won't need frequent propane runs to town. Enough to run the furnace some too.

 

[tall1]

FWIW We lived in a 30ft class A while the new house was being built. Due to things (covid, costs) what was supposed to be 30 days turned into a winter. I live in the middle of Wyoming so our winters are a bit more than KY. Average temp that year was around 5 deg with some nights being -35 deg.
Skirting is a must. I used a foil faced folding foam, its about 1/4", its an easy install. Not a lot of r-value but it stops the wind chill from happening under the rv. For bitter cold times I put a 250W heat lamp on the ground under the water tanks. I ran the power cord out the skirting and would plug it in as needed
Finally was able to run a power cord to the house and used a 1200w heater which ran about 24 hr a day, with the propane heater coming on at night at 40% cycle time.
RV propane heaters do use a lot of propane, but they use even more battery.
Used propane for fridge, water heater, cooking. I have an extenda-stay setup for propane so I wouldn't need to move the RV to get propane. A 20lb BBQ cylinder would last about week with the electric heater in use, don't ask about propane use with out the electric heater
200w of solar and 225AH of batteries was NOT enough. A 2000w inverter was ok. The generator saw daily use, until the electricity showed up.

AN SO... A Eco Pro 2 1800w solar generator (SG) and 300w of solar would cover most of your electrical needs and save on a lot of gas. That's enough inverter power to run a microwave for popcorn . If you don't need the microwave then the 400-500w SG would do and need a little less solar. A side benefit of a SG is that its portable and you can take it camping.
.

thanks for sharing. yeah thats a lot of cold. i can't imagine, after florida tropical for the last 20 yrs. deff more mild here in ky. great idea on skirting, with winter coming so fast and i'm so far behind i got lucky here with ky farms every where i found hay bales for 3$ a piece i'm going to set them fast to each other tight end to end around camper and to skirting and keep camper as low as possible ,,in spring i can repurpose the bales and redo it right with thick foam panels make a 1x4 pretreat frame at ground all around camper to anchor bottoms and seal seams and roll it flat black to match and look nice plus i can raise camper higher for more underneath storage. this first winter will look like a barn hoedown. i'll be sure to post pics. i've been looking at the ecoflows,,i've been wondering how reliable their systems are

 

[tall1]

When you get your battery monitor you'll be able to more specifically quantify your actual power usage. Today you're throwing a 3600W generator at it and it checks the box, but you don't know if you're using 20% or 90% of its capacity, or how many Wh it's ultimately delivering. So you don't necessarily want to replicate that in solar, not that it wouldn't work but let's say you only need a peak 1800W delivery and a handful of kWh per day. You'd end up with solar capacity you never use, not that you couldn't come up with ways to use it up if you wanted but at least at the outset, why make the system larger/more expensive than you have to. Edit: Safe to say you could probably rationalize having too many panels but go with a calculated number at first, and that will show just where the sweet spot is and from there the decision of space, cost and operating margin can be technically determined.

As a data point, with my RV at nominal 30 degree ambient temps I get about 3 days of operation (fridge, water heater, furnace and stove) from a 20lb grill tank. Your usage of course may be different but it illustrates a bit just how much propane it takes to keep these things at some level of habitability. As far as your water heater goes I wouldn't be overly concerned about that freezing say, overnight. It takes a prolonged period of cold to freeze a volume of water that large. Your pipes will freeze long before the water heater would so if you can create an environment where the pipes don't freeze, then the water heater is OK by default.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[tall1]

sorry mark and to the other members i have been so busy running day and night. so much good advice, and after all the propane advice i decided to switch gears for a minute and eliminate the propane hog, i went out and bought a small wood burner at t.s.c and had to run 30 to 60 mile trips to get fittings,,trying my best to eliminate power and propane hogs plus i have almost unlimited firewood,,this will make my solar needs even less as i was looking at running electric heaters, now i will need just power for occasional outlet usage 12v battery charging and t.v...still waiting on my monitor so i can get my usage.

 

[tall1]

As Mark says, water heater freeze-up is not a big worry. If the heater tank was fairly warm in the evening, it's not going to freeze overnight even with the heater off.

Since you are off-grid and not handy to town, I'd suggest either spare 20# LP tank(s) or having a larger one installed with a tee feeding into the RVs main propane line. They make a tee just for that, usually called an "extend-a-stay" tee after the original such product. But any propane supply service will have a tee that would work. A 100# tank with your existing 20# in reserve would assure you won't need frequent propane runs to town. Enough to run the furnace some too.

so sorry for the late reply gary,,i'm trying to find a couple extra 20# lbs. now, will be great for back up. i was just telling mark i just bought a wood burner by us stove company a small one. scrambling though to get all the fittings. but one more thing off of propane and electric..can't wait to be toasty warm. i'm still working on getting my watt usage numbers.

 

[Ex-Calif]

I think you are gonna learn a lot this winter. I am presuming this is your own property. If this is to be a permanent thing I would be investigating ways to get my own power in.

It's crazy that someone wants $15k to run power.

If I read right your neighbor is going to let you run a 20 amp cord? I know it's Kentucky vs. Florida but in my year of liveaboard I abandoned propane heat and used a very small electric heater from Wally's. Unless it was on the very low setting it would drive us out of the RV it was so warm.

I worry more about your various water and waste runs freezing than you.

 

[Ohiosnowbird]

i'm even thinking of now, installing a wood stove, just to take as much as possible off the electric load, winter is my fear.

We’ve lived off grid for the last 10 years and heat with wood stoves. Vermont castings (if they’re even still made) have been the best. “Always have 2“ is an off grid rule we follow. Always have 2 heat sources, 2 power sources, etc.

We bought a class c earlier this year and have been “camping” in our front yard. We’re in SE Ohio. We’ve learned a lot doing that and from this forum. One recent lesson was that the propane furnace drains your battery pretty quickly. Like in one night of cold. We have solar, but only 1 panel and one battery. The starter system on the furnace is what does the draining. At some point we’re going to look at upgrading somehow but we have other fish to fry right now. Our goal is to stay out of the cold once we get going.

Another thing you might want to look is Automatic generator startup (AGS). There is a remote switch in the coach and a unit near the generator that allows you to set it to automatically turn on the generator under certain conditions, like a specific time, temperature or a certain battery voltage. We have ours set to 11.5 volts to kick on because the propane heater kills the battery. Problem with our AGS is that it’s not working so we can’t report how well it works, but we like the idea of it. When we get it working, well put the solution in that thread.

Pearls from another newbie….