Let's talk about propane

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OK, you've added a couple of variables like the blackstone and generator. Though generally cooking, fire pit and even water heating are minimal users as while the Btu's are high the durations are quite short. The genset has the potential to put a whammy on it though. There is a convenience factor to not schlepping and filling gasoline tanks so maybe run through some volumetric calculations for the size genset you're considering to see how that run time will impact refill interval. Note that the energy density of propane is a bit less than gasoline when sizing your genset. Seems though for home generation a stationary tank would make more sense but either way, propane is an ideal stored fuel. Doesn't degrade over time and there's nothing leftover in the genset carb to corrode it.

The time and effort aspect I mention is the pondering, materials acquisition, framing construction, tank modification and trailer plumbing considerations just to make something that works, vs using something already purpose built. It's worth it if you get a specific operational or pecuniary benefit out of it, or maybe just for self accomplishment if you like. Many people have solar power that really don't net a benefit from it other than it makes them feel good about it. Not saying that's your motivation but just in your few messages so far you have a pretty good understanding of what you want to do and how you want to get there, so I can appreciate even if it doesn't net a tangible return it might be fun or interesting to try. In a past life I built a home made generator out of a lawnmower engine and a GM alternator. It worked as designed but when it was all said and done it was more expensive and less capable than a store bought one. But, I did it and it was interesting to build and talk about it.

Probably the only thing I might work through is a scheme to keep the tanks stock and readily exchanged if needed. Maybe there's an external device/regulator to accept the liquid fuel as dispensed by the tanks and convert to regulated vapor at appliance pressure? Then you're not reliant on a nonstandard tank and could keep filled spares around as needed.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
 
I just watch the changeover flag on my dual 30 lb tanks and take the empty one to be filled when I notice the flag has turned red. If I'm curious about how much propane is in a tank I'll run my fingers down the side, if I can't feel a difference in temperature where there's liquid propane vs vapor I'll heat about a cup of hot water, pour it down the side of the tank and run my hand down the water trail. It's the same principle used by the stick on liquid crystal strips.
 
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I don't think I would be comfortable modifying the larger tanks to deliver vapor instead of liquid. I'd be concerned about insurance coverage if something happened because of the way your modified tanks are set up.
Just my $.02 FWIW

Safe travels and all the best.
But I'm not modifying them. I'm flipping them upside down, that's all.
Seems like an expensive and complicated way to get a gauge. You can get 20# horizontal LP gas tanks with a gauge from Flame King. Designed for vapor rather than liquid too. There are even 30# & 40# models if you want larger tanks.
You can even buy them at a Home Depot or similar store for around $100 retail. Probably a lot less if you have a wholesale connection with your job...

The forklift tanks are absolutely everywhere in my job. Most are the 33lb size but there are a chunk of 43lb ones around as well. I'd be aiming for the 43lb ones and if possible, aluminum 43lb just to help the weight.

Getting something else that's around that 85lb mark is not as easy as I would also most likely sacrifice the ability to remove it from the trailer as well.
Probably the only thing I might work through is a scheme to keep the tanks stock and readily exchanged if needed. Maybe there's an external device/regulator to accept the liquid fuel as dispensed by the tanks and convert to regulated vapor at appliance pressure? Then you're not reliant on a nonstandard tank and could keep filled spares around as needed.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

I'm really not worried about it. If I want to keep a filled spare it's no problem, I can just get another forklift tank. I'm also not really worried about keeping a spare around the house anyway. Since I drive the delivery truck and I go by my house at least once a week all I have to do is go into the delivery system and add my own name onto my list for that day and then stop at my own house to fill these.

I've thought about running a liquid out into an expansion tank to then convert it to vapor. Beyond adding a few branches off the existing trailer system I'd like to leave that alone if I can. If it turns out the generator I eventually get needs a liquid input then absolutely that's what I'll be looking to do. But I'd probably have to mount an expansion tank under the frame which would leave it exposed to rocks /road debris etc. it's just not ideal. Does have a few up sides.
 
Just a thought, if you're currently working with propane equipment, & have the tools for it, couldn't you simply remove the valve, remove or cut off the dip tube, then reinstall the valve?
That sounds a lot safer than inverting the tank and submerging the 85% fill vent and the overpressure release valve into liquid propane. Venting liquid propane is much more violent than venting vapor, the liquid is 290 times denser by volume and expands that much as soon as it exits the tank.
 
That sounds a lot safer than inverting the tank and submerging the 85% fill vent and the overpressure release valve into liquid propane. Venting liquid propane is much more violent than venting vapor, the liquid is 290 times denser by volume and expands that much as soon as it exits the tank

In their normal horizontal operation the pressure relief is already submerged.....

It sees the same amount of pressure no matter if it's above or below the liquid line. Those valves also reset themselves after they have bled off enough pressure. It's not like you are dumping the whole tank

The fill vent (aka spitter) would be on the wrong side for me. That's why I'm planning on just rolling them over when I fill them so it's in the correct position while filling.

Typically it's not a huge thing when filling the tanks for forklifts. Since those are liquid systems it's not like the BBQ or even home tanks where getting liquid in the line would be a bad thing.

Hell I've had plenty of times where our delivery truck fills the forklift tanks so fast that the pump literally hits a dead stop right as the spitter starts spewing liquid because the tank is 100% full. Even doing that with the pressure hit of the pump hydro locking the tank doesn't pop the pressure relief valves. Let the tank spit for a few seconds and that's enough room for the vapor.

The only 2 differences for me is I would probably let it spit until it's below the spitter so I know there's plenty of vapor room in there and I'd probably purge the lines just to be safe after rolling the tank back over.
 
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I have never seen the need to have a gauge on my propane cylinders. I'm with Gary, seems like an overkill to redesign a propane system. I try to leave on trips with full cylinders .When my auto changeover regulator shows a red flag I know the first cylinder is empty and about how long I have to get the empty cylinder refiled.

I had 40 pound cylinders on my last trailer and sometimes carried a spare 20 pound cylinder from my BBQ secured in the back of the truck. My new trailer had 20 pound cylinders. I kept my 40 pound cylinders and the pigtail hoses from our old trailer totaled by a tree fall. I forgot the longer threaded rod but bought one for 15 bucks on Amazon. Now I have two 40 pound cylinders and 2 spare 20s. If I were you I'd buy two 40 pound cylinders and a longer threaded rod as long as you know that the added tongue weight is OK.

Don't forget, if the new cylinders are not pre-purged that you need to have that done before the first filling.
 
I would not do this, forklift cylinders are not USDOT approved. This might invoke problems with your LP handler certification if there is any issue.
What? Yes they are, that's why they have a DOT stamp and hydro date
 

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Re-read the actual rules, the stamp does not delineate what the stamp is exactly for.
You can create a free account on the NFPA website that allows you to read any part of the regulations.
If you prove me wrong I will apologize.
 
Re-read the actual rules, the stamp does not delineate what the stamp is exactly for.
You can create a free account on the NFPA website that allows you to read any part of the regulations.
If you prove me wrong I will apologize.
If you didn't find what the stamp is for then you weren't reading the actual rules. I actually have more experience with DOT regulations beyond propane. I've played paintball for 20 years now and have to deal with DOT regs and specifically recertification fairly regularly.

They don't stamp tanks with DOT for no reason, this should get you started, it's from the DOT themselves


In this case DOT 4E 240 from the photo above just as an example

DOT is saying it's a US specification that falls under DOT. If it were certified in Canada it would say TC (transport Canada) and it is possible to have multiple certifications

4E is the specification for a welded aluminum cylinder. Stuff like size limits and wall thickness

240 is the working pressure (psi) that it is rated to.

They can't put that stamp on the tank unless it meets those specifications.

The other part of that is the hydrostatic test which the tank has to pass when it's created. That's the part of the photo with the arrow. Most propane cylinders have a 12 year cycle from date of manufacture until the first hydro test is needed and then every 5 years after that. 4 series tanks have a 10 year first test test that means it's up for hydro in August of 2029 for it's first test after manufacture. After that it's either 5 or 10 years for the next retest depending on the method the tester uses to recert the tank the first time.

The other numbers in the photo above are as follows, it doesn't really relate to certification though

WC is water capacity. In pounds. Don't ask me why, water volume would seem more useful if you ask me

TW is tare weight. The weight of the empty tank

DT is the dip tube (spitter) length. It's a little misleading on these forklift cylinders since they can operate and be filled either vertically or horizontally and the dip tube will always spit at the same volume of propane

The NFPA does not regulate pressure vessels, that's all DOT Territory. NFPA probably has some regulations around storing them but yeah, nothing around certification. I actually used to deal with NFPA regulations as well as I used to design fire sprinkler systems a long time ago
 
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