How to Determine Which 1995 Damon Challenger Model a Non-RV Dealer is Selling

[jim_manley]

IMHO low mileage is better unless it sat with dirty oil in the engine for years. The engine/transmission seals tend to dry out quicker when not used but other rubber parts are dependent only on age.  For that price if you have to replace seals it is still a bargain. Since you have maintenance records seals may not be an issue. If kept inside my formula is take the age and divide by 2. It doesn't age nearly as fast out of the elements. I bought my 97 five years ago. It had 55K miles and everybody told me I'd have nothing but problems since it sat unused for 10 years. But I checked it out thoroughly before I bought it.  I've had zero problems/repairs and use it about 90 days a year. From bumper to bumper everything is still like new and functions like new.  You will need to re-caulk everything because caulk ages much faster than rubber. Also change all fluids, engine, transmission, differential, purge brakes, power steering, and radiator. If not you may have problems.

Hi Bar (I've always wanted to raise a bar to a high level, and now I have!),

That's a great experience data point to hear, and I hope that my find turns out to be similarly functional.  Yeah, changing out fluids and caulking are de rigueur for me ... heck, at my age, I'm regularly changing out my own fluids and caulking things on a most annoying regular basis, 24/7/365/366!  If the photos really are current (they don't contain any metadata, unfortunately), the nearly immaculate condition of the inside and outside of the Challenger (wait, didn't something else named Challenger ... oh, yeah, may their souls rest in peace) strongly suggest that this ship was cared for from stem to stern (getting back to the "barge" nomenclature), including underneath and engine/transmission-wise.  It's amazing what just changing the oil and filters on a reasonable basis can do (3,000 miles is nuts, unless you're MHing in a silicate mine!).  Sending off fluid samples to a lab can tell you all sorts of incredibly useful stuff about parts wear, especially when comparing them longitudinally over time to look for trends.

Even individual parts that appear to be otherwise identical can be differentiated, occasionally with slightly-to-wildly-different lifespans.  Mass production can result in significant variations in products just based on statistical distributions.  A friend worked for Varian in the microwave wave-guide division, and they had to make tens of thousands of parts to get one that actually met the specs (and hence it was sold for over a million bucks), with the remainder melted back down to be used to try again.  It was impossible to intentionally manufacture parts that met the extremely tight mechanical specs, even if all the time and care in the world was expended on it. 

The photo of the roof shows what's likely an aluminum powder bearing (silicone-based?) sealant smeared around the ladder attachment points, etc., that I suspect is not factory-applied.  IIRC, the Challengers have a Lauan mahogany layer under aluminum sheeting, that in turn covers an insulating foam core, and is finished off with an interior plywood ceiling base material attached to the aluminum frame.  They warn you to not wear hard-soled shoes up there, lest the aluminum get dented, or something else cracks, but, I go one better and have fashioned weight-distributing panels that strap to the bottoms of my work boots.

Thanks for yet-another happy-ending story (well, not that kind of happy ending! ? !) that I can add to my growing collection.  The Challengers seem to be pretty well-built from the posts, even though they may not win Prettiest Girl awards from those who prefer half-million-dollar (and often upwards of seven-figures) professional musician concert tour bus conversions.

All the Best,
Jim

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

it's useful for CarFax and similar records searches, if any shops submitted descriptions of work they did to the Big Databases in the Sky.  I can also use it to verify the claims that "all required maintenance was performed" and by whom.  A lot of people don't know that shops (even independents) submit that data (unless you specifically tell them not to ..

Lot's of luck with that. I've seen some RV carfax reports (including for my own coach) and there ain't much there. Mostly DMV transactions. Few RV dealers report anything, whether collision repairs or work on the house systems. Even claims reports by insurance companies are quite succinct.

 

[jim_manley]

Lot's of luck with that. I've seen some RV carfax reports (including for my own coach) and there ain't much there. Mostly DMV transactions. Few RV dealers report anything, whether collision repairs or work on the house systems. Even claims reports by insurance companies are quite succinct.

Hi Gary,

CarFax wasn't the focus of my post, it was an example, and transactions can be recorded elsewhere.  There are a lot of data sources to which CarFax doesn't have access, especially some of the manufacturer proprietary and government agency ones, which I can access.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

 

[jim_manley]

The one thing you will probably need to do is remove a dreaded poop pyramid. Just about every old RV has one. When you go camping and there is a sewer hookup, people who don't know any better just open both the black drain valve and the grey drain valve. But that s wrong. The black valve should be closed. If left open there is not enough liquid to carry the solids out of the tank. So the solids build up and form a poo pile. In order to inspect for a poop pyramid you need to drill a hole in the tank so you can see inside. There is a 90 degree bend between the valve and the tank so you can't see in there. There is 90 degree bend at the bottom of the toilet and another one going into the tank so there is no way to see inside of the tank. There are two options. You can install a tank rinser like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BUQOCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or get an endoscope camera like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYTHWK4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Search the forum for "Poop pyramid" and you can read a few stories...

Hi Tom,

Good topic - I'm very familiar with this problem from my boating "hobby" and Navy shipboard engineering days.

Are the 90-degree elbows so tight that a 5.5 mm diameter endoscope (what an appropriate name for this operation!) snake can't negotiate them coming in through the outermost valve or down through the toilet?  I couldn't get your endoscope link to work, but https://www.amazon.com/s?k=endoscope+camera finds some nice, inexpensive, wireless 5.5 mm snakes/cameras that use mobile devices for the display.  Hmmmm, my students do need to build some robots ...

Another option would seem to be to replace the 90-degree elbows with more gradual/larger radius parts, or perhaps even stiff, but still flexible enough for installation, tubing.  No, I'm not interested in doing that, but, you're more than welcome to pop by ...

I take it that the sprayer gets its own hole drilled in the (top of the?) tank in a position most effective for getting at the pyramid, without being in the way of anything else in the vicinity.  Does the other end connect to a water supply line somewhere in proximity, with a valve, or do you just route a shortish hose segment to somewhere handy to get to for connection to a standard 3/4-inch or 1/2-inch external hose, with a removable screw-on cap or in-line ball valve to keep the aroma intact in the tank when the sprayer's not in operation?

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

The 90 degree bends are in three inch pvc. There is absolutely no chance you could replace the pipes. Yep the sprayer gets a hole drilled in the side of the tank. It is about an inch and a half. Then you can inspect the interior very easily. There are many ways to plumb the sprayer. Installation is simple, takes about 20 minutes. Well worth the money for keeping the black tank and sensors clean.

 

[jim_manley]

I talked to my father-in-law about the Challenger and one question he had was whether it had an Allison transmission, which would be a six-speed.  I seem to recall that the Challengers built on the P30 chassis have a four-speed transmission with overdrive.  He said that the four-speeds on the P30 commercial trucks only lasted about 30,000 miles before they were toast.  Can anyone verify which transmission is on their Chevy P30 based Challengers, what mileage they've reached, and what service/repairs has been done up to that point?

He said that, if an inspection doesn't find serious fluid leaks from the engine, transmission, water pump, etc., and if the engine starts, idles smoothly, and provides decent acceleration on the highway, including climbing hills, the condition of the exterior and interior as shown in the photos (if they're current) suggests this would be a pretty good deal.  He confirmed that getting the 8R19.5 tires might take a bit longer than for more typical RV tires, but, I have a source that should be able to do that when needed.

I still haven't heard back from the dealer, but, I get the feeling that it's really a part-time operation as a second or third job, where vehicles are on a leased dirt lot in downtown Billings, and most of their business occurs on Saturdays.  They don't have that many vehicles listed, either, further suggesting that this is a small-time place.  The wildly inaccurate features listing indicates sloppy copying and pasting, and the typical excited sales patter extolling the Challenger's virtues in glittering generalities supports my suspicions.  That's OK, I'm not relying on them for any important information, and I will be looking closely at the maintenance records for further evidence of the condition of the engine, etc.  I'm hoping to be able to see it Friday afternoon or Saturday so I can determine whether it's worth buying, subject to a mechanic's inspection.

All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

I don't know what transmission mine had but I know I did not have overdrive. I think it was just a three speed automatic. It had 70,000 miles on the clock when the engine died. It was cutting out. I never did any transmission work to it. Ran flawlessly most of the time.

 

[Old_Crow]

If it's a 3 speed, it'll be a Turbo 400.  If it's a 4 speed, it'll be a 4L80E.  I can tell by the dash that it's a fuel injected motor(I was a Chevy motor home tech in another life), and I believe that they upgraded to the 4L80E when they switched to fuel injection.
You can always crawl under it and look at the shape of the transmission pan.  The TH400 has 13 pan bolts and the 4L80 has 17.  I always thought that the TH400 pan was shaped sort of like Texas, too.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

No Allison of any sort in that Challenger or any P30.  The P30 of that era used a GM 4L80 Hydramatic, 3 speed + overdrive.  Back then, Allisons were used only in diesel pusher chassis.

 

[jim_manley]

If it's a 3 speed, it'll be a Turbo 400.  If it's a 4 speed, it'll be a 4L80E.  I can tell by the dash that it's a fuel injected motor(I was a Chevy motor home tech in another life), and I believe that they upgraded to the 4L80E when they switched to fuel injection.
You can always crawl under it and look at the shape of the transmission pan.  The TH400 has 13 pan bolts and the 4L80 has 17.  I always thought that the TH400 pan was shaped sort of like Texas, too.

Hi Wally,

Thanks very much for the tech intelligence (it's about the only kind of intelligence I have left these days!).  I was under the impression that GM didn't go to fuel injection on the 454 (and everything else) until 1996 to meet more stringent pollution limits imposed then, and to improve performance and fuel economy.  Given that engines/trannies/chassis could be a year or two older than a MH model, the engines could be that much more ancient.  However, that was just hearsay evidence that wouldn't stand up to a first-year biology student's dissection in a court of law!

It appears from the photo of the driver's position in the Challenger that the PerNunDeL ("Green Acres" fans will know what I mean) has gear shift positions with a D (possibly with a square around it, indicating overdrive?) to the right of the N, maybe another D without anything around it (for Drive), probably a 2, and likely a 1, which would track with it being the three-speed automatic with overdrive.  I hope to finally get to see the MH by Friday evening or Saturday, so, I'll know much, much more then, and your recognition keys will help identify things.

I greatly appreciate your help, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[jim_manley]

No Allison of any sort in that Challenger or any P30.  The P30 of that era used a GM 4L80 Hydramatic, 3 speed + overdrive.  Back then, Allisons were used only in diesel pusher chassis.

Hi Gary,

I was hand-waving over the phone with my father-in-law, and he was thinking that the MH was a diesel pusher before he saw the photos after we had hung up.  His hearing isn't that great, since he's well on his way to 80, so, I don't think he heard me say it was a P30 with a 454.  Put him in front of anything mechanical or with an engine, though, and he's still able to tear things apart that aren't working, and put them back together in perfect operating condition (sometimes requiring replacement parts, and sometimes not, and he can fabricate many parts, if need be).

Thanks for the clarification and All the Best,
Jim

 

[jim_manley]

Well, DUH, I finally found (again) where it says "4-Speed auto transmission w/overdrive" in the brochure, to which Lou had provided a link.  When all else fails, read ... something!  I spend all day trying to get students to do that, so, I guess it's the blind leading the deaf.  What did I come in here for ... ?

 

[jim_manley]

The 90 degree bends are in three inch pvc. There is absolutely no chance you could replace the pipes. Yep the sprayer gets a hole drilled in the side of the tank. It is about an inch and a half. Then you can inspect the interior very easily. There are many ways to plumb the sprayer. Installation is simple, takes about 20 minutes. Well worth the money for keeping the black tank and sensors clean.

Hi Tom,

A 5.5 mm diameter endoscope snake should be able to negotiate a couple of 90-degree elbows that are about 75 mm in diameter, as long as the length is sufficient.  I'll have to figure out how long it is into the tank from the black water drain valve, as well as the toilet drain, to make sure that I get one with a long enough snake.

An endoscope seems like it would also be useful for looking into all sorts of nooks and crannies throughout a MH, and at about $35 for one that transmits video to a mobile device (especially a big tablet), that will be one of the least expensive tools in my quiver, despite also being one of the most high-tech.  That's what's great about a new hobby - you have to acquire all sorts of new toys ... I mean, tools ... to get all of that "work" done.

All the Best,
Jim

 

[SeilerBird]

Here is the one I have and it would definitely do the job from either the inlet or the outlet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYTHWK4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[jim_manley]

I finally got a text from the salesman apologizing that he's been unable to respond to my messages (further confirming my suspicion that this is his Job #2 or #3), but, he will be able to talk with me later this week.  Depending on what his answers are to questions we've discussed here, I'll decide whether to go look at the Challenger on Saturday.

I'll do a once-over before starting it up to look at the identity and condition of the major systems from underneath and inside, concentrating on finding evidence of leaks through the roof, windows, cabinets, floors, drivetrain gaskets/seals/plugs, etc.  Then, I'll start it and check for power to, and operation of, everything electrical, look for drivetrain operating leaks once it's warmed up (never trust a steam-cleaned engine/transmission - evidence of fluids in dust/dirt has been removed), work the hydraulics in the jacks, pressurize and run water through the plumbing and look for leaks there, turn on the console and overhead A/C units, and heaters full-blast, and put a bit of water in a cup and place it in the back of the freezer to see if it can actually turn it into ice while I'm looking elsewhere.

If it passes that perfunctory examination, I'll take it out for a spin, including the superslab and some hills (including a 10% grade up the sheer Northern sandstone wall that gives the Yellowstone River its name) that will either kill it, or prove it's a winner, at least for short trips.  That will determine whether a full inspection will be done and fluid samples sent off to a lab for analysis of wearing-surface metals.  I'll know whether I'll be buying it (and for how much) by probably the end of next week, if it makes it through the full gauntlet.

If its condition doesn't match the photos, and the maintenance records don't match the website description when we arrive, my wife and I will skip everything above and simply proceed straight to an early lunch.  We've identified several other candidates ranging from about $10K to $25K that look decent in the photos that we'll also be examining.  Then, it will be off to our monthly shopping for vittles and dry goods, a delicious dinner, and then return home the 100+ mile trip on our trusty buckboard pulled by the reliable old team.  Life in the Mountain West can't be beat, and that doesn't even count the amazing scenery that others pay thousands of bucks to experience for a few days or weeks, but, we get to live among daily!

 

[Old_Crow]

Hi Wally,

Thanks very much for the tech intelligence (it's about the only kind of intelligence I have left these days!).  I was under the impression that GM didn't go to fuel injection on the 454 (and everything else) until 1996 to meet more stringent pollution limits imposed then, and to improve performance and fuel economy.  Given that engines/trannies/chassis could be a year or two older than a MH model, the engines could be that much more ancient.  However, that was just hearsay evidence that wouldn't stand up to a first-year biology student's dissection in a court of law!

It appears from the photo of the driver's position in the Challenger that the PerNunDeL ("Green Acres" fans will know what I mean) has gear shift positions with a D (possibly with a square around it, indicating overdrive?) to the right of the N, maybe another D without anything around it (for Drive), probably a 2, and likely a 1, which would track with it being the three-speed automatic with overdrive.  I hope to finally get to see the MH by Friday evening or Saturday, so, I'll know much, much more then, and your recognition keys will help identify things.

I greatly appreciate your help, and All the Best,
Jim

That dash definitely indicates a fuel injected coach.  The older dash had round gauges that were carried over from the 70's pickups.  Also confirmed by the 2 drive positions on the "prindle"(that's how we pronounce it in the business).
The early injected engines had 2 big injectors mounted in the throttle body, and a lot of people mistake that assembly for a carburetor.
Check the 8th digit of the VIN number.  An "N" indicates injected, a "W" indicates carbed.

Back in the day, people who had had carbed motors were not happy with the performance of the throttle body motors.  Had one customer who regularly traveled with the same group of coaches.  He was the first in the group to upgrade to a throttle body coach.  He reported that his mileage went up about 1.5 per mile, but when they got to the Sierras, the carbed coaches ran off and left him on the hills.  He actually took the coach back to the dealer he bought it from and traded back to his old unit.

 

[jim_manley]

That dash definitely indicates a fuel injected coach.  The older dash had round gauges that were carried over from the 70's pickups.  Also confirmed by the 2 drive positions on the "prindle"(that's how we pronounce it in the business).
The early injected engines had 2 big injectors mounted in the throttle body, and a lot of people mistake that assembly for a carburetor.
Check the 8th digit of the VIN number.  An "N" indicates injected, a "W" indicates carbed.

Back in the day, people who had had carbed motors were not happy with the performance of the throttle body motors.  Had one customer who regularly traveled with the same group of coaches.  He was the first in the group to upgrade to a throttle body coach.  He reported that his mileage went up about 1.5 per mile, but when they got to the Sierras, the carbed coaches ran off and left him on the hills.  He actually took the coach back to the dealer he bought it from and traded back to his old unit.

Hi Wally,

Ah, of course, these are based on commercial truck components, so, they had those to use as deemed desirable.  I've never heard of performance dropping with fuel injection, but, then, the Porsches I've owned weren't exactly built for fuel economy, either!  Is it mechanical or electronic fuel injection?

I routinely lose uphill climb races when driving around here anyway since the scenery is so spectacular, I'm a cheapskate when it comes to enriching oil-opolies, and if you go faster, there's usually a turn that scares the bejeezus out of you, sooner or later, when you get up on three wheels (at least it feels that way).  You also wind up with your fingernails embedded in the steering wheel, plus needing an underwear change ... but, no need to wait until the next rest area to take care of that with a MH, right?

What will really seal the deal is if the spiffy CB radio works ... the Rubber Duck will be convoyin' with Cab-over Pete with his reefer on, Jimmy the Pig Pen haulin' hogs, and 997 other misfits dodgin' wall-to-wall bears, with some even in the air ... LOL!  I hope it's a 40-channel model, and not like my Original Flavor 23-banger.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

 

[Old_Crow]

Hi Wally,

Ah, of course, these are based on commercial truck components, so, they had those to use as deemed desirable.  I've never heard of performance dropping with fuel injection, but, then, the Porsches I've owned weren't exactly built for fuel economy, either!  Is it mechanical or electronic fuel injection?

I routinely lose uphill climb races when driving around here anyway since the scenery is so spectacular, I'm a cheapskate when it comes to enriching oil-opolies, and if you go faster, there's usually a turn that scares the bejeezus out of you, sooner or later, when you get up on three wheels (at least it feels that way).  You also wind up with your fingernails embedded in the steering wheel, plus needing an underwear change ... but, no need to wait until the next rest area to take care of that with a MH, right?

What will really seal the deal is if the spiffy CB radio works ... the Rubber Duck will be convoyin' with Cab-over Pete with his reefer on, Jimmy the Pig Pen haulin' hogs, and 997 other misfits dodgin' wall-to-wall bears, with some even in the air ... LOL!  I hope it's a 40-channel model, and not like my Original Flavor 23-banger.

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

If you're a sports car guy, you're probably somewhat familiar with the Crossfire Injection on the '82 Vette's.  You know just how much the 'Vette guys loved those setups(not to mention us Chevy techs) : 
Now picture just one of those throttle bodies(albeit a higher cfm unit)on top of a 454 trying to drag 23,000 lbs up a hill with the driver's foot planted firmly on the floor.  It was my believe in those days that the Quadrajet on the carbed motor would flow more air and fuel than the throttle body, thus the lack of performance. 
Most didn't care about that, and bragged on the increased fuel mileage, but the customer I mentioned had equipped his old coach with a Banks exhaust, MSD ignition and a few other go-fast items.  He wanted his performance back, mileage be damned!

10-4 good buddy, 73's to your XYL and you.  Catch you on the flip-flop.  The Old Crow is 10-10 on the side.

 

[jim_manley]

Don't count too much on synthetic elastomers having better resistance to aging than NR. NR doesn't like ozone or UV, but otherwise ages as well as synthetics and resists fatigue damage twice as well (typically has twice the fatigue life). By actual test synthetics like neoprene and nitrile do age out in line with the seven year recommended life.

The reason synthetics may seem to last longer is that they are often in low fatigue applications. Basically, that means they are often over designed for the application.

Ernie

Hi again Ernie and anyone else with an opinion on stretchy/bendy stuff,

If it's not clear which parts have been replaced from the service records, what would be good tests for NR/synthetic rubber viability?  Poking and bending with a screwdriver or similar leveraging tool seem appropriate.  Trying to penetrate something with a sharp, pointed object (such as an awl) doesn't seem like it would accomplish much, and could damage a part that's actually OK.  Obviously, anything that crumbles at all is way beyond end-of-life.

Most belts have more steel in them than anything else, so, if they aren't cracked and don't show any apparent issues when pulled or pressed, is that good enough?  It seems that hoses will be a similar story, since they have significant amounts of reinforcing material embedded in them.  Seals and gaskets would show leakage if they're even beginning to fail, so, I would assume that would be the primary indicator for them.

The roof will be a prime area for very close inspection, since the integrity of nearly everything else will depend on its ability to remain intact over the long haul.  Penetrations for antenna cables, air conditioners, etc., will warrant special attention, of course.  I'm not so worried about low-pressure/criticality parts that are easily and inexpensively replaceable, such as plumbing components, although I will document their state on a to-do list if there are even the beginnings of indications of issues.

How much pressure should water supply lines be subjected to, just in case it's not apparent that a pressure regulator is missing or corroded/abraded to the point of failure?  I plan to put a gauge and, if necessary, a valve, in-line with the city water supply hose during testing to ensure that nothing is overpressurized.

Window seals have to be in good shape, not just from the waterproof perspective, but, because they add structural stiffness as well as retention in metal frames that can expand and contract upwards of 10% between extremes in low and high temperatures.  Caulking, as you pointed out, will degrade with age, and especially if it's been exposed to UV and heat.

Foam and rubber gaskets around vents and access hatches (especially between the engine and bedroom) get crumbly just because they can, but, those will be noted on the to-do list.  Foam padding under carpeting might have lost its resilience, especially in high-traffic areas, so, that can be dealt with when it's annoying - good footwear cushioning insoles can make up for that, in the meantime.

Am I forgetting anything?

Oh, I forgot to ask in my previous post on this subject, aren't synthetics generally much more tolerant of chemicals than NR, especially petroleum-based and other aromatic molecules that tend to be solvents?

Thanks and All the Best,
Jim

 

[jim_manley]

Well, I spoke with the salesman Thursday evening, and this is looking like a pretty good deal all around, if an inspection confirms the state of everything to be as stated.  It turns out that, as I suspected, the Challenger was bought new in 1995 by a Grandpa and Grandma in a town near Billings, but was traded in three years ago for another vehicle at the dealer.  The salesman took ownership of it personally at that time and has been using it for trips of around a few hundred miles each, a few times a year.

He also put in a few thousand dollars' worth of repairs and maintenance, including replacing the front-end and aligning it, new tires, a tune-up that involved replacement of some worn items, overhauling all of the A/C units, and other odds and ends.  The photos are current and he confirmed that he does have the dealer maintenance and repair records going all the way back to the original purchase pre-delivery inspection, including parts replaced with OEM components.  When asked if there were any leaks, he firmly said no, so, I'll be the judge of that after it's started, warmed up, and driven.

The only thing that reportedly needs to be done before highway driving is performed is replacement of the leaking air bladders in the front springs, as there's a bit of a shimmy at around 65 mph, which is to be completely expected.  The side door window was broken and the door latch was unlocked over the Easter weekend, but, the perp(s) apparently didn't enter because a silent alarm had alerted the police.  They must have had lookouts as they were gone by the time the police arrived.  He's having the window replaced, so, I wouldn't need to worry about that.  The awning was in pretty bad shape, so it's been removed, and I don't know if the frame is available so that the awning material could be replaced, but, perhaps the frame was mangled in high winds.  Maybe a replacement can be found in a recycling yard.

The NADA Guide lists a bunch of 32/32.5-foot Chevy chassis-based Challenger models for 1995, including M-313-Chevrolet, M-313-MTL-Chevrolet, M-315-Chevrolet, M-315-MTL-Chevrolet, M-3130-Chevrolet, M-3130-MTL-Chevrolet, M-3150-Chevrolet, and M-3150-MTL-Chevrolet.  How do I tell which is the one that I'm looking at?

I feel better now that I've gotten to talk to the most recent owner and we'll be going to do a walkthrough and initial inspection Saturday afternoon - we'll see what happens.

All the Best,
Jim

SOMETHING I FORGOT TO MENTION:

The Challenger does have a working generator with sufficient capacity to run everything, with about 45 hours on it.  So, no more looking wistfully at sale ads for generators (for a while - quite a while, I hope).