Tow Vehicle

[Kevin Nicolin]

Hi.  My name is Kevin and I'm just getting started in RVing.  In fact I don't even have an RV or a tow vehicle.  What I do have is plenty of dreams and of course, questions.  First question is, I'm considering purchasing an RV which weighs in at just under 5000# dry.  I'd like to buy a Chevy Tahoe to pull it.  The Tahoe specs out at about 8600# trailer towing capacity (TWR).  Does the Tahow have enought beef to safely haul it?  You're probably asking why doesn't he just get a truck?  Because I'd like to take my wife and four young grandsons with me camping.    So the tow vehicle must seat at least 6, and be comfortable driving on long trips (that's code for I don't think a front bench seat will work). 

 

[Oldgator73]

Welcome. Dry weight doesn?t mean much. You need to know the gross vehicle weight of the RV. What is it going to weigh when all your stuff is in it. Plus, how much stuff will be in the tow vehicle. You also want a safety net of about 20% which comes to about 1700 lbs. so figure on your tow weight of around 6900 pounds. That gives you 1900 lbs for people, cargo, water, beer, wine and sausages. That?s for the tow and the towed vehicle.

 

[Rob&Deryl]

Welcome

You came to the right place and at the right time - that is, before you buy anything.

Your question is simple... the answer not so much but, you came here to learn stuff.

So, first off:
Ignore empty weights. No one drives vehicles empty or tows empty trailers.
Many crew cab pickups seat six though I understand not wanting a front bench.
A TT (travel trailer as different from a 5th wheel trailer) has to place at least 10% of its loaded weight on the hitch ball of the TV (tow vehicle). It is best to always use the trailer GVWR for these calculations. Even with the best of intentions, trailers tend to keep getting stuff added and often end up overloaded. Note, if you subtract empty weight from GVWR, you get the CCC (cargo carrying capacity) or the amount of stuff you can put in the trailer. This has to include water, cookware, food, bedding, clothes etc.

The towing capacity of a TV expects only a driver and a trailer with no wind resistance, like a flat deck loaded with bricks. A TT has a huge frontal area which reduces the towing capacity. Also, the 5 passengers in the TV also reduces towing capacity.

There is a yellow bordered sticker on the drivers door latch post that lists the cargo capacity of that specific vehicle. Brochure weights and capacities are for minimal, stripped down low end trim models. Most vehicles have options that add weight and reduce capacity. All the passengers, luggage, pets, tools and the tongue weight of the trailer have to add up to less than the cargo capacity.

Whew! That?s a lot to think about.

Go to a car dealer and look at a few vehicles like the one you want and take pictures of the yellow sticker so you can study them at home.

Welcome to a great adventure.

 

[SpencerPJ]

My trailer is about 5000# dry, closer to 6500# loaded.  My YukonXL pulled it, but not great. Hence the truck.  The shorter wheelbase on a Tahoe will not play nicely with a larger Travel Trailer (more than 21').  People do it, but you get close to maxing that Tahoe out, get into a bit of wind, the Mrs will not be happy. You mention long trips? How long?  Not to change your mind, and I am more a gm guy, but Ford ExpeditionXL with maxtow might be a nice option for you, or even some of the Suburbans. Glad you are doing your homework upfront.  It will save you from making a costly mistake.  PS: Welcome to the RV Forum.  Lots of knowledgeable people around here.  Good luck, it took me months to decide on my replacement tow vehicle, and I then ordered what I wanted 

 

[scottydl]

^^ Took the words out of my mouth, regarding wheelbase of the Tahoe... i.e. the distance between the front and rear wheels. It's fairly short, compared to its longer cousin the Suburban (or Yukon XL on the GMC side) which will negatively impact the stability of handling the trailer... especially longer models. That is just one of several factors, but one that is often ignored.

I completely understand the need for 3 rows of seats and extra people-moving capacity. We are a family of 5, and until a few months ago I towed our 32' TT (weighing a little over 9000# fully loaded) with a 1995 Suburban 2500. That's a 3/4 ton version, which is pretty rare but they're out there. I'd recommend looking to buy one of those, if you want to be sure you have a stout SUV to tow your trailer. Up until 1999, the strongest powertrain combo was the 7.4L engine and 4.10 gears, which is what I had. All 2500's (whether pickup or SUV) had the 4L80 transmission. That had a 10,000# rated tow capacity, which was bumped to 12,000# in the 2001-2006 models when the 7.4L became the 8.1L option. In 2007+ models, the largest GM truck engine became the 6.0L and lost the higher-end towing capacity... maxxing at 9700# with the right options. I believe that eventually the Suburban 2500's were no longer offered except perhaps by special order and fleet use, but I hear they've come back again as of 2018 or so. Still rare I'm sure, but you may find one if you specifically search for one.

Now that my kids are older and more tolerant to longer trips, I decided to go "truck" so I can stop worrying about TT tow capacity and prepare us for fifth wheel ownership in the next couple years. My new-to-me 2005 Silverado crew cab diesel dually fits that bill nicely. Yeah it'll be tighter fit for 5 of us in the truck, but it's still quite roomy and technically seats 6 with two benches. We are weekend/vacationers, so overall it will only be a few times per year that we'll all be riding together for lengthy periods.

 

[Kevin Nicolin]

Thanks for all the great info.  Looks like I still have lots of homework to find the tow vehicle I need. 

 

[scottydl]

You're doing it now, so don't get down on yourself or where you're at. We all started from scratch at some point in our RV ownership journey. Keep asking questions and reading up on more threads! The forum Library (link near the top of the page) has a lot of great articles for newcomers and frequently asked questions. There is a section there just for learning more about towing and towables... similar to this area of the forum (where I moved this conversation).

 

[Kevin Nicolin]

Thanks for the encouragement Scottdl.  I'll visit that part of the forum to learn more about towing etc.  In the meantime, I went online and it appears that all the major pickup manufacturers have a 'seats six' option that looks pretty good.  Bucket seats for driver and shotgun and a seat in between for my grandson.    So a pickup seems to now be the probable tow vehicle after the great advice re: wheelbase.  Can't wait to sit in each brand to evaluate how comfortable they are.  Thanks to all. 

 

[9c1fanatic]

I've been in your shoes as well and its true when you start needing passenger capacity beyond 4 or 5 it get narrower out there but there are still a lot of good options.  Payload is a big concern when combining a larger trailer with a lot of passengers and their gear or luggage.  Most of today's "full size SUV's" just don't have enough.  Based on my own experiences towing my rig with various vehicles before I settled on a permanent tow vehicle, a suburban or Yukon XL newer than 2014 with 3.42 gears or better will do ok if you manage the payload issue and have the right WD hitch.  I would stay away from the shorter Tahoe.

Of course crew cab trucks with the front bench will open up a lot more options for you but using that center seat may be a problem as the kids grow up depending on how small they are now and how long you plan to do this.  Suburban 2500 models work great but are harder to find.  The 6.0L with the 6 speed (2009-2013) is a lot better real world than the 6.0L with the older 4 speed that came before.  Suburban 2500 production started back up in 2017 but are only sold new to fleets and they have the same powertrain as the 2009-2013 models. 

One very overlooked vehicle still available for RV's with larger families is the Chevrolet Express Van/GMC Savanna.  They are super cheap due to the aging body style but the chassis and powertrain are rock solid.  Plus they come in seat configurations for 5, 8, 12, and 15 passengers and you can remove some or all seats for any number of seating combinations.  They also come with two lengths 135 and 155 inch wheelbases and 2500 and 3500 series.  The shorter one is basically similar in wheel base to the suburban so easy to park and maneuver.  The longer one is a little shorter than a modern crew cab truck with an 8 foot long bed.  With the 6.0L engine, 6 speed and standard 3.42 gears, they tow 9-10k (more if you can find one with a 3.73 rear in it) and have more payload than any other vehicle in production that has seating for more than 6.  I bought a 2019 Express to tow my Grand Design 2400 and picked the one ton extended model with 12 passenger seating.  Its a great option if you plan to use the van for mainly road trips and towing.  It doesn't make for the best daily driver especially if you live in urban areas.  This gives me more cargo room than a suburban even with all the seats installed and 3000 lbs of payload.  I can still open the back doors with the trailer attached and it tows very well.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Nissan and Ford also make nicely-equipped larger-size vans and some can handle trailers up to around 6500 lbs. And still provide decent passenger seating and/or cargo capacity. It may be option for a bigger family.

 

[CharlesinGA]

I'm going to suggest you step up from the Tahoe to a XL which is GM code for a Surburban, Its longer, has more room, probably a third seat, more room for the "stuff" you carry, and the longer wheelbase will make the towing experience more pleasant.

Charles

 

[Kevin Nicolin]

I'm so blessed by all the great information.  Thank you so much.  I admit that it's a little overwhelming.  Going to begin looking at some vehicles this weekend. 

 

[scottydl]

I admit that it's a little overwhelming.

You are in good company... we were all there at the beginning. The GOOD news is, you are learning all this stuff now and it will serve you well during the rest of your RV adventures. Some people go with the "ignorance is bliss" approach and never understand some of the basics of towing, weight distribution, tire pressures, etc. But those are all important/responsible aspects of ownership. RVing has a somewhat high initial learning curve, but after that it levels out nicely.

 

[SpencerPJ]

I'm so blessed by all the great information.  Thank you so much.  I admit that it's a little overwhelming.  Going to begin looking at some vehicles this weekend.

A good way to test your salesperson on a lot, Ask them what the payload or carry capacity is for xyz vehicle.  The payload , also known as carry capacity is listed on the yellow sticker in the drivers door jam.  If they are not aware of that, they are not your best source to ask additional technical questions.  Many go to a brochure, but that is not the payload for your xyz specific vehicle. I found many / most at the lots do not know how to recommend tow vehicles and play their salesperson cards well.  If you get razzled, take a picture of that yellow sticker and the specifics of what you are looking at, we'll help you understand the numbers and make sure it does what you hope it will do.  Good luck  )

 

[Kevin Nicolin]

Thanks SpencerPJ.  Great tip.  I  was awake last night wondering if a salesman would either not know tow vehicle-specific info, or try to blow other info by me like trying to get me to include an engine that's high dollar but not really needed.  First trip to dealer is tomorrow.  I thought about taking my laptop and making sure if we build a truck he's using right numbers etc. 

 

[SpencerPJ]

Sounds great.  The problem with 'build a truck' (and that is what I did and ordered), you have to do research on what to anticipate.  The truck starts out at X pounds of payload, and every option added takes away from that, the higher the trim package, the lower the payload. I ordered a F150 Larait so I could delete the moonroof and a few other options typically found on a Lariat, to gain the payload I wanted. It's important to window shop the doors and start getting a feel that xyz truck with a,b,c options, typically net ____ Payload.  That's is what I did.  There are very few Salespeople and Dealers that post these numbers freely, heck most of the salespeople are not that technical in nature, they just love to sell cars.  I would go to the lot, walk up to the gang of salespeople waiting, when the first opened their mouth I'd say, let's play a game.  Whoever gets it right gets to show me your trucks.  'How do I find the Payload of (point at a truck) that truck.  They will snicker and chew, but one usually says the correct answer, the yellow door sticker.  Good Luck, take your poker face  )

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

If you are in a more rural area, you may find a dealer who has a real truck specialist, one who actually knows the truck configuration options and how to configure for more payload or more tow capacity.  They can be found at places that cater to "work truck" customers.  Even if you get a different sales person, they probably know who to consult with once you state some specific technical requirements.  One of the more helpful sales people I've come across was a lady who freely confessed she didn't know about the configuration options but said she would get help from a guy who knew everything. And she did.

 

[Kevin Nicolin]

Spent a good chunk of the weekend visiting dealers and looking/driving trucks.  We narrowed it down to three possibles before settling on the Ford F-150 with the V8.  So we'll go in to talk about ordering a '21 later this week.  At this point they still aren't sure of the exact prices and rebates, etc. are going to be.  Once we find that out we'll pull the trigger.  Again, I appreciate all the wise counsel.  This is an awesome site!

 

[scottydl]

Did you check out & drive any F250's or other 3/4 ton variations? I'm not in the "you need a dually to tow a pop-up" crowd here, but definitely make sure you end up with enough truck to handle the size/style of trailer you might buy for the next several years.

If 5000# dry and 7000# loaded, 25' or shorter (for instance) is the biggest you think you'll ever go, and you won't be towing over a bunch of mountains, then that F150 should do fine. What you want to avoid is getting your first trailer, and then 1-2 years later thinking "boy that 32' model that weighs 10,000# sure looks nice" and realizing your nearly-new truck can't handle it. I'm not saying that will happen to you, but it's a tale we've seen & heard here before. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[SpencerPJ]

I ordered a 20' F150 Lariat SuperCrew, and I'm overall pleased.  If you want the maxtow, you will need the 3.5 ecoboost. I waffled on that, I liked the v8 sound, but I am on a couple Ford truck forums and the 5.0 is not a fan favorite for towing and other issues (oil burning).  Just saying.  The maxtow gets some other nice features, I especially like my 36 gallon gas tank. The moonroof, back tailgate step, and power side steps are the weight adders that eat at payload.  I have a decent pdf spec sheet file, it's a little too large to post on this forum, let me know and I can email it to you if you like.