Would you buy an EV?

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DonTom said:
Maybe. We won't know for a while.

I thought my rather cheap Chevy Bolt wouldn't be all that great. But I enjoy driving it more than my Tesla. And nothing seems cheaply built about it.

-Don- Reno, NV
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The Bolt is a great car. It looks like a Bentley in comparison to that BYD.

I wouldn't touch a BYD with a 10' non-conductive pole. Chinese car makers have a lot of mistakes to learn from the Korean car makers who came to the US. I'll let other people live with them first before I ever consider one. To this day, I have not owned a Kia/Hyundai, so I doubt I'll ever own a car made in China unless there is no other choice. It was one of the reasons we skipped buying a Polestar 2. For a while, a lot of the inventory in the US was assembled in China.
 
Skookum said:
I wouldn't touch a BYD with a 10' non-conductive pole.
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I wouldn't want to be the first to own one. I would probably be afraid it will blow up as I am driving it.

Like Tom used to tell me, the Chinese are very capable of making high quality stuff. But they know Americans are cheap.

We almost always look at price before quality. So they build cheap junk to sell to us in large numbers.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to be the Guinea Pig with the BYD cars. But I would want to hear what the owners says after 100,000 miles with one--if any of them can make it that far.

I am old enough to remember when only junk came from Japan. Things can and do change. But how much quality can they put into a 12K$ car?

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
The drop in EV sales is very expected after the big peak in EV sales during the last couple of years. Almost a million sold in 2023 alone.

Whops! Now that I double checked, make that more than a million EVs sold in less than a year!

Not many left looking for new EVs this year, as expected. They got theirs last year.

-Don- Reno, NV
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So they should stop making them for a few years until the ones that were bought wear out?
 
Any time I see BYD in the news I'm reminded of our failed ABQ public transportation here a few years ago:

Besides scrapping the buses, the city has sued their manufacturer, Chinese company BYD Ltd...the BYD company (an acronym for Build Your Dreams) had delivered just 15 of 20 promised buses. Those that did arrive had axles that leaked oil and bolts that fell off doors. More importantly, the batteries remained charged for less than the 275 miles promised by BYD. A 2018 Times investigation exposed similar electric-bus problems for LA Metro.

The failed electric buses were eventually replaced by "clean diesel" but practically speaking, EV, diesel or CNG ridership is dismal. It was a faulty concept, a ruse for city administrators to cash in on federal transportation grants. The inaugural free fares at the inception of the program continues to this day. Even for free few ride it, except to serve the illicit drug trade as mobile storefront and transport. But that's a different topic...

The cheep chinese cars remind me of the 1970's EV's like the Citicar. Yep, they're a car and yep, they're electric. "Good luck with that".

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
 
DonTom said:
I wouldn't want to be the first to own one. I would probably be afraid it will blow up as I am driving it.

Like Tom used to tell me, the Chinese are very capable of making high quality stuff. But they know Americans are cheap.

We almost always look at price before quality. So they build cheap junk to sell to us in large numbers.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to be the Guinea Pig with the BYD cars. But I would want to hear what the owners says after 100,000 miles with one--if any of them can make it that far.

I am old enough to remember when only junk came from Japan. Things can and do change. But how much quality can they put into a 12K$ car?

-Don- Reno, NV
Click to expand...

That's exactly it. There's huge opportunity to punch low on price in the EV market right now and the Chinese are poised. Not that they can't make great stuff, that's not the game right now.
 
Babe2201 said:
So they should stop making them for a few years until the ones that were bought wear out?
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Or is it best to not look at the sales from the previous year? Sometimes, for sure.

I can remember a year when the same thing happened with ICE motorcycles. One year in the 1980's the sold so many motorcycles that many cycle companies beefed up their production to manufacture more to find that they didn't sell well the following year. We could then get some great deals. Was a big loss to the motorcycle companies.

It seems to me that a valley after a large peak in sales is not all that uncommon. But predicting it in advance isn't always that easy.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
It seems to me that a valley after a large peak in sales is not all that uncommon. But predicting it in advance isn't always that easy.

-Don- Reno, NV
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The "haters" would have us believe EV is disappearing, but that's not true. Automakers became over-eager in a tightening market of interest rates and vehicle purchases overall. See how many Jeeps are sitting on dealer lots lately? They can't give them away, and they're gassers! If the haters only took the time to actually read detailed analysis, they'd understand the market a little bit better.

GM, for example, was said to be retracting from the EV market. In reality, in 2023 they revised their 2022 goal to be on track for 400k units per year by 2024, but still have their targets to have production capacity of 1M units by sometime in 2025. They could point to obvious battery supplier issues and tying up loose ends with the Bolt and development of the Ultium platform. Barra still thinks they'll get there, and GM is about to come out swinging hard with the Equinox EV. Chevy Camaro production ended in early 2024, earlier than planned, so they could retool the Grand River plant to produce EV's. Bolt production ceased so the Orion assembly plant could be retooled to produce Ultium-based EV's.
 
Now we have the recent release of "better" EPA ICE emission standards. No doubt this is in concert with the "green" initiative and 2030-whatever EV mandate goal. This is clearly driving vehicle development and the market, and government picking winners and losers. Maybe it's just another wakeup call like in the 70's gas crunch where japan was poised to sell economical cars while all detroit could offer was stripped and cobbled 1950's technology. But, to what end? You could make all ICE cars illegal and say, by 2035 every car in the country is an EV. What's better, and what's worse? And who gets to decide who gets the better part and who gets the worse part? If there's a paradigm shift as a result of this, like we saw with ICE standards creating ever greater efficiencies and reduced emissions, what is the vision with an EV transition? Proponents cite very myopic predictions but nothing that describes an *overall* better world.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
 
Could someone explain who the "haters" are, and are we talking about folks on this forum. I've seen the term thrown around here, but I'm not sure if it applies to anyone who doesn't proactively support the move/trend to EVs.

On a personal note, I have no current plans to buy any vehicle, so I'm unlikely to buy an EV. Hopefully, that doesn't get interpreted as me being a "hater".

We tend to keep our vehicles 'forever'. e.g. last week we were driving Chris' 1999 Lexus that I previously shipped to our place in OH, and is stored in our garage there. It looks in far better shape than the many rust buckets I see being driven there, maybe because it was a CA car until 5+ years ago. With less than 60,000 odo miles, I see no reason to replace it.

Similar story with my 2000 Lexus that I drive here in CA.

Doesn't mean I don't occasionally click on ads for new vehicles, both EV and ICE, and think "maybe if I win the lottery".

BTW does our electric golf cart sitting in the shed on our lot in WY count as an EV?
 
Tom said:
Could someone explain who the "haters" are, and are we talking about folks on this forum. I've seen the term thrown around here, but I'm not sure if it applies to anyone who doesn't proactively support the move/trend to EVs.

On a personal note, I have no current plans to buy any vehicle, so I'm unlikely to buy an EV. Hopefully, that doesn't get interpreted as me being a "hater".

We tend to keep our vehicles 'forever'. e.g. last week we were driving Chris' 1999 Lexus that I previously shipped to our place in OH, and is stored in our garage there. It looks in far better shape than the many rust buckets I see being driven there, maybe because it was a CA car until 5+ years ago. With less than 60,000 odo miles, I see no reason to replace it.

Similar story with my 2000 Lexus that I drive here in CA.

Doesn't mean I don't occasionally click on ads for new vehicles, both EV and ICE, and think "maybe if I win the lottery".

BTW does our electric golf cart sitting in the shed on our lot in WY count as an EV?
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Making a vehicle last for a long time is by far the most ecological thing to do. Good on you.

We switch out every 4 to 8 years. But on the plus side somebody gets a very well cared for used car when we trade. I saw our old leaf go by a couple weeks ago. Still the same guy driving it that bought it from us a few years ago.
 
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@Tom, I'm not sure if there's a concise definition of "EV hater". If I had to describe one, it's someone who continually posts negative, disparaging, or conspiratorial-edging-political posts about EV's in threads that may or may not be about EV's, regardless if that information is factual or not.

See also: Antagonist

An EV hater I wouldn't think is someone like yourself who may or may never have plans to buy an EV or may even not be proactively supportive of them. I see lots of meaningful discussion here from people who don't own EV's and/or aren't enthusiasts. Lots of folk here to read, discuss, and learn, I think...
 
Viajeros said:
Making a vehicle last for a long time is by far the most ecological thing to do. Good on you.

We switch out every 4 to 8 years. But on the plus side somebody gets a very well cared for used car when we trade. I saw our old leaf go by a couple weeks ago. Still the same guy driving it that bought it from us a few years ago.
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We recently gave our 2004 Suburban to our son. It's probably good for another 100,000 miles. Some years ago, we gave Chris' 15 year old Honda to our daughter.
 
Skookum said:
An EV hater I wouldn't think is someone like yourself who may or may never have plans to buy an EV or may even not be proactively supportive of them. I see lots of meaningful discussion here from people who don't own EV's and/or aren't enthusiasts.
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Phew, thanks! - I think. Personally, I get a little irritated when I see that and similar terms repeatedly tossed around in an apparently antagonistic way.
 
Tom said:
Are you saying that none of the 'hater' comments we see thrown around here apply to forum members/posts?
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IMO, no, not at all. If so, I am a hater myself because I will never buy an ICE vehicle again or even take a serious look at any.

Lack of interest in EVs or seeing some disadvantages of EVs is not even close to what I would call an EV hater. No more than my lack of interest in ICE. I just had no realistic choice when I purchased my 2022 Class A, and I am happy with it despite a few minor issues. But I would still prefer an E-RV if a decent one was made with a decent charging infrastructure. But that is still many years away.

We all have different tastes and needs. But that can change. I used to consider myself a Harley hater, but now I own one. But in my case, it doesn't mean I wanted to damage anybody's Harley or was obsessed with my dislike for them. I just didn't care for any of them that I have tried (many) until the M8 engine on the larger frame that feels great to me for an ICE bike. So I use the term "hater" very loosely for myself. But for others, I won't call their difference in taste as being a hater.

BTW, I dislike the Harely Livewire electric motorcycle. I cannot stand the thing. Many reasons make it not right for me. Does that make me an EV motorcycle hater?

Likewise, I think you should try another EV before you make up your mind because of one bouncy Tesla. You could find one you like. But they are different. You will have to get used to the regen. And Tesla is almost like jamming on the brake when you let go of the accelerator pedal. But it can be set to lighter regen until you get used to it. On some EVs you can turn the regen all the way to off and then it will feel just like an ICE vehicle. But heavy regen is great on the many hills around here. You're in a rather flat area, so the regen won't be as important. But perhaps you will like the one pedal driving. Again, you will have to get used to it.

BTW, EVs have the brake light come on as they slow down even if the brake pedal is not touched. And they stay on when stopped. And it will NOT roll a bit after stop on a hill with the one pedal driving. Still no need to touch the brake pedal.

And there are countless EVs makes to choose from these days. Tesla is not the only one. But I do wonder why that one was bouncy.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
What if "EV hater" did apply to some people on this forum? Do we have to call them "people who don't condone any other mode of transportation than an internal combustion vehicle" now?

Asking for a friend.

:p
 
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