Would you buy an EV?

[Tom]

Likewise, I think you should try another EV before you make up your mind because of one bouncy Tesla. You could find one you like. But they are different.

No disagreement. That was a sample of one that I reported on, and the only Tesla I've ridden in. If I was going to buy an EV, I would do more research and test drive several makes/models.

You will have to get used to the regen. And Tesla is almost like jamming on the brake when you let go of the accelerator pedal. But it can be set to lighter regen until you get used to it.

Back in the day, without the regen (recharge) function, we called it 'dynamic braking' As an apprentice, I worked on dockside cranes (see the image). That HEAVY boom was raised to allow ships to maneuver dockside, and was then lowered to allow the bucket to run out over the ship to grab iron ore from the hold. They had disc brakes, but they had no chance of stopping or braking the boom on its way down. The answer was dynamic braking.

For the folks who have no idea what this is ... when an electric motor is reconnected as a generator, and an electrical load is put on the generator, it slows down. The excess energy is dissipated as heat. In the simplest case, put a short circuit across the generator and it stops; Simple laws of physics/electrics.

In the case of an EV, the excess energy is used to recharge the battery as the vehicle slows down.

 

[Tom]

What if "EV hater" did apply to some people on this forum? Do we have to call them "people who don't condone any other mode of transportation than an internal combustion vehicle" now?

Asking for a friend.

Please don't throw the term around gratuitously. Meanwhile, get another friend

 

[Derby6]

Kinda surprised at post #339. Pretty sure I’ve been called a hater on here. Lol

 

[DonTom]

Kinda surprised at post #339. Pretty sure I’ve been called a hater on here.

Nope. That was only your own misinterpretation. Not anything anybody here said or even meant.

But I do recall saying there are a lot of EV haters in states such as AK and TX where jobs depend on oil.

-Don- Reno, NBV

 

[Derby6]

Nope. That was only your own misinterpretation. Not anything anybody here said or even meant.

But I do recall saying there are a lot of EV haters in states such as AK and TX where jobs depend on oil.

-Don- Reno, NBV

No, No. I was referenced as a hater and deranged. Then you said that hater shouldn’t be taken seriously. Lol

 

[Onyrlef]

Could someone explain who the "haters" are, and are we talking about folks on this forum. I've seen the term thrown around here, but I'm not sure if it applies to anyone who doesn't proactively support the move/trend to EVs.

On a personal note, I have no current plans to buy any vehicle, so I'm unlikely to buy an EV. Hopefully, that doesn't get interpreted as me being a "hater".

We tend to keep our vehicles 'forever'. e.g. last week we were driving Chris' 1999 Lexus that I previously shipped to our place in OH, and is stored in our garage there. It looks in far better shape than the many rust buckets I see being driven there, maybe because it was a CA car until 5+ years ago. With less than 60,000 odo miles, I see no reason to replace it.

Similar story with my 2000 Lexus that I drive here in CA.

Doesn't mean I don't occasionally click on ads for new vehicles, both EV and ICE, and think "maybe if I win the lottery".

BTW does our electric golf cart sitting in the shed on our lot in WY count as an EV?

A “hater” in social media is anyone who expresses any opinion contrary to the one true opinion ie., mine. It’s a meaningless pejorative intended to cleverly compartmentalize others as having nefarious intention's while your own are obviously as pure as the driven snow.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Back when I was active on the EV builder forums I was labeled an "EV Basher" which I thought was curious, since I owned and drove one (made that my email sig). But since I didn't carry the water for the environmental wing of the EV movement back then, I was therefore a marked man. Mostly for just asking questions like "how come?" and "why not?" Got 'em all spooled up but they had to keep me on the list since I was one of the very few people that actually had an EV and not just noble intentions. Fast forward to today, there's no dismissing anything about EV's. For the most part I'm curious and interested in the technical stuff, and can respect what goes into making any running car. The politics and social aspects of them are interesting to observe and comment on as well. With such a diverse community of owners, supporters and detractors one had better have an open mind, not just to keep dialog from going into the toilet but to perhaps see things from another perspective, or even learn something as a result. I rarely learn anything new about this stuff but I do have a respect for the choices people make even if they don't align with my own. Having that understanding can net more useful dialog and a mutual respect. Anyone that's off the rails of one extreme or the other usually will self destruct anyway, so no point in taking yourself down with them.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Skookum]

Back when I was active on the EV builder forums I was labeled an "EV Basher" which I thought was curious, since I owned and drove one (made that my email sig). But since I didn't carry the water for the environmental wing of the EV movement back then, I was therefore a marked man. Mostly for just asking questions like "how come?" and "why not?" Got 'em all spooled up but they had to keep me on the list since I was one of the very few people that actually had an EV and not just noble intentions. Fast forward to today, there's no dismissing anything about EV's. For the most part I'm curious and interested in the technical stuff, and can respect what goes into making any running car. The politics and social aspects of them are interesting to observe and comment on as well. With such a diverse community of owners, supporters and detractors one had better have an open mind, not just to keep dialog from going into the toilet but to perhaps see things from another perspective, or even learn something as a result. I rarely learn anything new about this stuff but I do have a respect for the choices people make even if they don't align with my own. Having that understanding can net more useful dialog and a mutual respect. Anyone that's off the rails of one extreme or the other usually will self destruct anyway, so no point in taking yourself down with them.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Maybe I missed it in another thread. Would be curious to hear about what you built!

 

[Skookum]

Earlier this week I needed gas for small equipment and figured I'd fill up the car too. $5.29/gallon for 92 octane ethanol-free. The small engines seem to prefer the higher octane, and the fuel systems seem to prefer the ethanol-free. It's also what the car drinks.

Each of the 2 cans got 5 gallons plus a splash. Just over $53. The car took just over 11 gallons, or $62 total, for 220 miles. Except, the pump shut off at $100, so I had to do the last ~3 gallons on a separate transaction.

The car gets 20mpg and the small engines usually consume about 10 gallons in a season.

Husband was sitting on the couch at home and pipes up after I tell him I just spent almost $120 filling up the car and our two gas cans.

"$26 to go 536 miles". That's the latest tally for our EV based on our exact cost to charge at home.

Not that the goal of owning our EV was to save money at all, nor save the earth. But it is a 5,700lb luxury SUV with muscle car performance. Folks like Don with his Bolt and Model 3 are likely saving a mint in comparison.

 

[Adventurous Traveler]

Great article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal detailing the plight of the EV industry, and the ridiculous push by the federal gov't, led by the EPA, to shove EVs down the throats of Americans.

The article also points out that because of other renewable energy pushes by the Fed it is not less expensive per mile to drive an EV vs an ICE vehicle based on higher electrical cost nationwide. An example used was a Ford F150 at an average fill-up of $17 vs the F150 Lightening at $17.75, and when recharged almost exclusively at home the figure shot up to over $26!

They also make a great point about rural folks from I believe Montana paying higher prices for ICE vehicles because All US EV builders are losing money, $$$ billions, on EVs so they've upped their pricing on ICE vehicles to try to re-coup some of the EV $$$ loses. Their conclusion was folks buying ICE vehicles are subsidizing wealthy California residents who want to tool around in their Teslas and other EVs.

I may have stated earlier I am not an EV hater, but I am a hater of most things shoved down our throats for political reasons, gains, and kick-back financial windfalls for those making the decisions, not what the buying public is deciding.

 

[Skookum]

Their conclusion was folks buying ICE vehicles are subsidizing wealthy California residents who want to tool around in their Teslas and other EVs.

Good. Because wealthy Californians pick up the tab for many things in this country including the welfare states who rely on the government for more than their own taxpayers can fund within their own states.

I sometimes read the opinion section of WSJ too. Anyone can submit editorials.

 

[Viajeros]

We did a trip of just over 2400 ish kilometres last year pulling the trailer. 30 days on the road. All in BC. Our car showed us spending 82 dollars but there were a few charges missing there. One campground had a policy of mandatory 50 amp site rentals for EV tow vehicles so that was an extra 40 bucks over two days. (Reasonable and we got to use our air conditioning in the trailer). And another campground had FlO pay by app car chargers which cost us 12 dollars. (I prefer that method). As well roughly 34 dollars in charging at various BC hydro and FLO fast charging sites which anlthough the app tracks the kWh it doesn’t track the cost. So a total of roughly 168 dollars in “fuel costs” for just over 2400 ish kilometres of touring over a month. (Seems to me I figured this out once before and I had a slightly different number so maybe I missed something, but it was similar)

The only other not accounted for fuel cost in this is increased propane usage in the trailer because if we stay on 30 amp sites (common for us) we plug the car in and not the trailer as we never plug both in at the same time as campgrounds prefer that. (Unless we are on a 50 amp site). So maybe an extra 20 bucks in propane as we filled the bottle once on the trip.



A FLO charging site with trailer friendly charging.

 

[Tom]

A “hater” in social media is anyone who expresses any opinion contrary to the one true opinion ie., mine. It’s a meaningless pejorative intended to cleverly compartmentalize others as having nefarious intention's while your own are obviously as pure as the driven snow.

Just as I thought

 

[DonTom]

"$26 to go 536 miles". That's the latest tally for our EV based on our exact cost to charge at home.

When I came back from Auburn last time, I took my 1984 Yamaha Venture motorcycle (1.2L) to give it some exercise since I have not ridden it for quite a while. I had to fill up the tank before I got halfway back. Cost me $30.00 for five gallons. In the CA mountains, six bucks per gallon for 87 octane. 40 mpg. So that 536 miles would cost me $80.40 on that motorcycle at that price.

But everything in CA is expensive. Electricity is 34 cents per KHW in Auburn (home charge).

99.0 miles to get to Reno from Auburn.

Gas on a motorcycle $14.85 @ 40 MPG to go 99 miles.

An electric motorcycle will take 15 KWH to get here. $5.10.

Here in Reno gas is now around $4.20 per gallon. 99 miles

$10.40 to get to Auburn from Reno.

Reno electric price, 16 cents per KWH. $2.40 to get to Auburn from here. Less if I want to stop for a free slow charge on the way in either Truckee, or Colfax, CA.

(in reality a little less to get to Auburn and a little more to get to Reno because of the difference in uphill vs. downhill).

Double these prices on both for EV & gas cars (3.5 miles per KWH & 20 MPG).

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Tom]

When I came back from Auburn last time, I took my 1984 Yamaha Venture motorcycle (1.2L) to give it some exercise since I have not ridden it for quite a while. I had to fill up the tank before I got halfway back. Cost me $30.00 for five gallons. In the CA mountains, six bucks per gallon for 87 octane. 40 mpg. So that 536 miles would cost me $80.40 on that motorcycle at that price.

When we were in the MidWest a week ago, I was given strange looks when I said "your gas here is almost free compared with California".

 

[Skookum]

Just as I thought

I'm not sure what's worse, being labeled an EV hater, or an Elite, Liberal, or Virtue Signaler just for showing support for EV's. I'd assume you'd agree that the opposite condition is equally true. Every admin and mod has their own bias too, but at least be fair, right?

 

[Tom]

I'm not sure what's worse, being labeled an EV hater, or an Elite, Liberal, or Virtue Signaler just for showing support for EV's. I'd assume you'd agree that the opposite condition is equally true. Every admin and mod has their own bias too, but at least be fair, right?

We try hard to avoid (or hide) bias and to be fair. After more than 30 years, we (I) might be getting it right

 

[DonTom]

when recharged almost exclusively at home the figure shot up to over $26!

I would like to see the real numbers such as the price per gallon of gasoline and the price per KWH for an accurate comparison for the same area.

And the EPA estimates for both vehicles. While these numbers may not be accurate for actual MPG, they are still good for comparison between vehicles. EVs are still rated in MPG as if running from gasoline. Example, my 2022 Chevy Bolt.

" The 2022 Chevy Bolt EV has an EPA-estimated fuel economy rating of 131 MPGe city, 109 MPGe highway and 120 MPGe combined. "

I have seen countless anti-EV articles that makes me wonder where they get their info. But stuff such as price per gallon and KWH can be shown for any area for an accurate and fair comparison.

FWIW, I have noticed more anti-EV articles lately, especially on the web. I have no issue with that until they show things that can easily be proven false.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Skookum]

FWIW, I have noticed more anti-EV articles lately, especially on the web. I have no issue with that until they show things that can easily be proven false.

-Don- Reno, NV

It's an election year. Everything online is suspect, more than normal.

 

[DonTom]

When we were in the MidWest a week ago, I was given strange looks when I said "your gas here is almost free compared with California".

Yeah, one nice thing about living in CA is gas seems to be very cheap when we leave CA for long RV trip.

But here in Reno is not much better. Reno gasoline comes from CA. The rest of NV is a lot cheaper.

-Don- Reno, NV