Home Solar

[Fyrflie]

I had no idea it worked that way. I assumed I would get two bills, one from PG&E and the other from the solar company. Not that it makes any difference to me.

Did you install your own solar system? Anyway, you need to subtract those costs when you compare your credit to your friend's system. I assume it will take several years for it to equal out. And then after you start saving.

Since my system is rented, not owned, I assume I won't have to pay for a new battery ever. But maybe I do. I didn't really read the contract and other paperwork all that well. IAC, I figure I cannot get ripped off much more than I do from PG & E.

But IAC, a seven-year warranty sounds reasonable to me. You should expect it to last a lot longer than the warranty, just as do most items, but with a few exceptions.

-Don- Reno, NV

Yes I did purchase my system outright and did the install myself.
I was using our numbers simply as an example of how the system works.
There are a lot of caveats to either system, so buyer beware and educate yourself on the process.

 

[DonTom]

There are a lot of caveats to either system, so buyer beware and educate yourself on the process.

Kinda what I assumed. But I will be learning the hard way. The inspectors just came here today and signed it all off.

Shortly after they left, I was told with a message on email it will take 30 days to get this new system Intergrated into PG&E's paperwork. I assume that means when I start to get a single bill covering both, PG&E as well as the solar system I am renting.

Now at 1433 hrs, I am only getting 2.91 KW from the solar system. It is overcast here today, so I guess that isn't too bad.

I just now watched it go to zero for around 2 seconds and then up to 3.81 KW as if something just rebooted or something. Do you have any idea what that was about? Just trying to figure out what I am seeing. 61°F up on the roof today. I received 139 KWHs since it first went online on April 17, late in the afternoon. But I got 2KWH gain even on that day. The app shows me day by day the KWH I am getting from the system. Only 12.8 KWH so far today.

Now, I am down to 1.54 KW at 1444 hrs.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

. How much square footage of panels do you have?

Today, they (V3 technology) gave me a rather large booklet about my system including the specs. V3 had to be here for the final city inspection.

It says:

4,050 watts (And I really do get that on a bright sunny day).
ten solar modules, each weigh 48.5 lbs.

total weight: 485 lbs

rack weight: 27.5 lbs

total weight added to roof: 512.5 lbs.

Area of displacement: 226 SF.

And near endless other info. Enough to answer any technical questions about the system and then some.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[John From Detroit]

Thanks that' was what I was looking for. So rounding 16,000 watts per thousand sq ft. or 16 watts per sq foot. (heavily rounded)

 

[1stimerver]

I spoke with a guy hawking solar panels for my house. They would install them for free and guaranty that their rate would be 15% lower than the uiility company we currently use for 1 year. When asked what happened after 1 year he said that we would be charged the going rate, "that would be less than the local utility rate".
When asked if he would guaranty that it would be lower than the local utilities rates for the duration of the contract, he said that wasn't possible.

Nuff said. We sent him packing.

Safe travels and all the best.

 

[DonTom]

I spoke with a guy hawking solar panels for my house. They would install them for free and guaranty that their rate would be 15% lower than the uiility company we currently use for 1 year. When asked what happened after 1 year he said that we would be charged the going rate, "that would be less than the local utility rate".
When asked if he would guaranty that it would be lower than the local utilities rates for the duration of the contract, he said that wasn't possible.

Nuff said. We sent him packing.

Safe travels and all the best.

I am not too concerned with the cost or if I will save a dollar or two. Could even cost me a bit more. I am more into it for the battery backup when the power goes out here. And I just feel better giving less money to PG&E yet more to the solar company.

I also like the idea of clean energy and reducing the strain on PG&E grid by a few KWHs per day.


But when I get my first bills, I will post the info here and see how it compares.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I also like the idea of clean energy

Currently, about 90% of end-of-life or defective solar panels also end up in landfills, largely because it costs far less to dump them than to recycle them.

I guess that's someone else's problem.

I too have challenged the door to door solar panel huckster's numbers and the one that always gets them is lost opportunity. Like I've got $20K or whatever just sitting around waiting to save $25 month or whatever on my net energy costs. Throw in periodic maintenance, inevitable repairs and replacement of inverters and control equipment and I would be surprised if after 10 years it's breaking even. Once you hit 20 years panel output is declining. But, this finance model bets statistically you won't even live there long enough to break even much less any sweet spot between 8 to 15 years out. They made their money and now it's up to you to keep all the balls in the air.

Eyes wide open on DonTom's part, he has no pecuniary expectation so it's strictly amusement. But even then I would be reading the fine print on how to get out of this rental in the event the house is to be sold. Even though you don't anticipate that soon, it's inevitable and the last thing you want is a lien or contract that needs to be satisfied before a sale can go through. Guessing especially in CA an existing solar system might want to be acquired by a new owner but this homeowner considers them a liability even if it's free.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

Currently, about 90% of end-of-life or defective solar panels also end up in landfills, largely because it costs far less to dump them than to recycle them.

Probably not in CA. Using dumps are extremely expensive here, and especially more for some items. See here.

I doubt if I will ever sell this house. Or my Reno house. Both have an advantage. No HOA here. No state income tax in NV, which is my primary residence for such. But my Reno house is in a HOA.

I expect to leave things as they are until I can't, such as until I drop dead or whatever. Or can no longer drive between the houses are something like that.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Throw in periodic maintenance, inevitable repairs and replacement of inverters and control equipment and I would be surprised if after 10 years it's breaking even.

This is a rented solar system. So they do the upkeep. IOW, I get ripped-off upfront.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Rene T]

I have 12 solar panels on my roof.,I own them. I go to FL for over 6 months and 5 or so months in NH.
My electric bill use to run about $150.00 before getting the panels. My bill now is no more than $13.00 a month. They tell me it a user fee because I am using their grid to send my power to them. At the end of the year if I have 600 or more KWH, they pay me for that power whatever the rate is that day.
Initially, the quote was $12,500.00. I got $3000.00 federal tax credit for one year.
Also the NH Public Utilities Commission sent me a check of $3500.00. So it ended up costing me $6000.00.
I’ve had them for about 8 years. Only had to replace one panel so far. It shattered and I don’t know why.
I don’t have a battery bank because I installed a backup generator. Power goes out and it starts automatically. Runs off propane.
I also have a solar hot water system. I have free hot water from the end of February, if they are not snow covered, till the end of November. I have a 80 gallon storage tank and have had that water up to 170F degrees many times. I don’t let it go any higher than that.
Pictures are my electric solar, hot water solar and my standby generator.

 

[Wasillaguy]

I also have a solar hot water system.

Nice.
Solar hot water is far and away the most cost effective/best energy saving thing a homeowner can put on the roof.

 

[1stimerver]

I have 12 solar panels on my roof.,I own them. I go to FL for over 6 months and 5 or so months in NH.
My electric bill use to run about $150.00 before getting the panels. My bill now is no more than $13.00 a month. They tell me it a user fee because I am using their grid to send my power to them. At the end of the year if I have 600 or more KWH, they pay me for that power whatever the rate is that day.
Initially, the quote was $12,500.00. I got $3000.00 federal tax credit for one year.
Also the NH Public Utilities Commission sent me a check of $3500.00. So it ended up costing me $6000.00.
I’ve had them for about 8 years. Only had to replace one panel so far. It shattered and I don’t know why.
I don’t have a battery bank because I installed a backup generator. Power goes out and it starts automatically. Runs off propane.
I also have a solar hot water system. I have free hot water from the end of February, if they are not snow covered, till the end of November. I have a 80 gallon storage tank and have had that water up to 170F degrees many times. I don’t let it go any higher than that.
Pictures are my electric solar, hot water solar and my standby generator.

Very well done! I would have jumped on the opportunity if I had the pricing and rebates you took advantage of...
Best of luck with the overall system, you seem to have not only come up with a very efficient system, but at a very attractive cost as well.

All the best .

 

[DonTom]

Now that they have my battery commissioned and is now 100% completed, I can see the entire system on my Tesla App--The exact same app I use for my Tesla car, but on the next page. I didn't even realize there was next pages as various different types of Tesla items are added. I also didn't realize Tesla sold so many different items that can be viewed, such as some Wall Connectors, Tesla Power Share, more Tesla cars, etc.

Right now, on my Tesla app, I see that the solar is giving me 3.5 KW of energy, of which one KW is now going to the house to run things, 2.5 KW going to the battery to recharge it (I was running from battery only last night, so it needs to recharge). Right now, I am using exactly 0.000 watts from the PG&E grid. Same with last night.

I received 7.4 KWHs so far today at 1140 hrs.

From the app, I can turn off the grid at any time, and just run the inverter and battery but not necessary to turn off now as it is already off just because I am gaining more from the solar than I am using by the 2.5 KW which is being used to recharge up the 13.5 KWH battery.

I can set the battery to how much I want to use at night from zero to 100%. I keep it at 50%, which means when the battery charge goes down to half its capacity, it will switch back to the grid.

I have complete control over the system from my Tesla App,

I really like the way this system works. I am not sure if it will cost me less or more, but it sure looks like my money will no longer be going to PG& E, but to the solar company. When I get my first bill for this system, I will then try to figure out how it compares.

I do realize the system will not work as well, when the days are shorter. I am gaining 20 KWH per day on nice sunny days like today, but as low as 11.7 KWH gained on an overcast day. The most I have received in a single day so far is 22.3 KWH.

Since the system was put in on 4-17, I gained 251 KWH on my new solar system.

BTW, I was running without the battery connected until yesterday. I didn't realize that until a few days ago. That was the last part of the solar installation. They needed some type of permission for the entire system to be put in operation, which just happened a few days ago, when I received this email:

"Hello Don
This is V3 Electric congratulating you on receiving Permission to Operate (PTO). Your solar project has now been completed! Please watch the short video below to verify your system is on.

If your system is on, please reply YES. Please reply NO if your system needs assistance. If you have any other questions or concerns please give us a call at 916-459-2007 so that one of our representatives can assist you.
Thank you,
V3 Electric Inc"

BTW, anybody here know whom the PTO comes from?

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Right now, at 1325 hrs, I have 3.9 KW coming in from the roof, 2.2 KW going into the house to run everything (two refrigerators, this computer, security monitor, this room light and things like that), battery fully charged to 100% SOC (13.5 KWH) and 1.7 KW going back into PG&E's grid.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Rene T]

Right now, at 1325 hrs, I have 3.9 KW coming in from the roof, 2.2 KW going into the house to run everything (two refrigerators, this computer, security monitor, this room light and things like that), battery fully charged to 100% SOC (13.5 KWH) and 1.7 KW going back into PG&E's grid.

-Don- Auburn, CA

I’m not sure if it’s actually going back into the grid. I thought that it just made the outside electric meter run backwards. Did the power company come in and change out the meter? It’s called a net meter I believe. So I guess the power does go back into the grid.

 

[DonTom]

I’m not sure if it’s actually going back into the grid. I thought that it just made the outside electric meter run backwards. Did the power company come in and change out the meter?

They did NOT change the meter. It is a Smartmeter (Digital).

I just went to my PG&E account; you want to guess from below which day my system went online?

Do you still need to ask if my power is getting back to them?

BTW, you can also see which four days I charged up an EV:


-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

But can somebody here explain my Reno bill, how they can tell exactly what I am using the energy for every month?




How can a Smartmeter be THAT smart?

How can they tell one item from the other? I can understand some digital stuff can have some type of digital ID, but how can it tell lighting from other low current items?

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

That's a great question, isn't it? It wouldn't surprise me to learn that pretty much any electrical load has a signature in terms of starting and stopping transients, variations while operating and such. Once a signature for a particular device is identified it can be monitored even in the presence of other loads, like being able to pick out an instrument in a song. Not unlike using FFT and other analysis to identify an RF transmitter via amplitude and phase noise data. Is the meter itself this smart or is it phoning the data home for analysis for your bill? That'd be my guess. Same could be done for water use too, a flushing toilet has a different water use signature than a dishwasher or lawn sprinkler. Couple that data with your cell phone data and there's all sorts of information one can glean by your movement and utility usage.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[garyb1st]

For those that have a significant area of the roof covered with solar, and the shingles are 15 or more years old, is the issue of shingle replacement addressed? Does the solar contractor discuss that issue when selling solar or is it up to the homeowner?

 

[Rene T]

I have 12 panels on my roof and I never thought about shingle replacement. My shingles are architectual shingles so I think they are good for 30 years. When they installed the panels, they were about 12 years old and looked like new. They are now 20 years old and still look new. The shingles under the panels are not seeing any weather or I’ve rays from the sun at all so I was just thinking if it ever gets to the point that the shingles outside the panels need replacement may be able to get replaced and maybe not touch the shingles under the panels.
We’re talking 10/15 years from now so it probably won’t be my problem.